Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

I want to switch from Herc to Shingen after the next UE, With Shingen and her EX skill I lose 25% def down from Herc's axe and can't use EX slot for ss or ambush, so can a team that can't reach 50% def debuff with kami only run Shingen?
Also would 0 star Hraes worth using as sub to cover the lack of debuff for Shingen?

Originally Posted by nut

I want to switch from Herc to Shingen after the next UE, With Shingen and her EX skill I lose 25% def down from Herc's axe and can't use EX slot for ss or ambush, so can a team that can't reach 50% def debuff with kami only run Shingen?
Also would 0 star Hraes worth using as sub to cover the lack of debuff for Shingen?

I don't recommend Herc=>Shingen if you will lose 50% def down. But if you can get -50% def with Shingen ss/ambush - why not? Make a playtest and deside. About Hrae as sub - bad plan. You can use Hrae on turn 8, Herc axe is much faster. On wind team with friend's Hrae on turn 1 things are completely different.

Originally Posted by Slashley

... do I REALLY need to say that Ults don't count? That's 4 Def when compared to 5, so you have what, 20% extra damage (I can't be arsed to even think the exact number, but it's around an always on Crit). And do I REALLY need to also specify no numbers with Union buffs (+100% Assault and +150% Burst) before somebody suggests those as well? ... although I guess that'd be valid since Union content is serious business...

All the numbers I listed were against 10 Def. And no Union buffs.

I guess exceeds can't be useful for ults, fair enough.
Then how about this:
Attachment 12132
Mammon, with no crit and 2 stacks of snatch... crap, there's TAphro here, can't hit burst cap like nothing when TAphro is involved, my bad. I could try this one with Shingen's Bow, but I guess it won't be good either (it can't be nothing, when you need to use bow after all).
A keen eye will see I kinda cheated on that one though.

Well, I could try Ares in future, after Typhoon Spears will be here. Not that I care that much, because Fire UE is in late April.
Anyway, I am not gonna play the "you need to hit burst cap on strict conditions, otherwise exceed is (apparently) not useful". As I've said earlier: with enough time many people will hit burst cap thus making exceeds more useful.

Originally Posted by nut

I want to switch from Herc to Shingen after the next UE, With Shingen and her EX skill I lose 25% def down from Herc's axe and can't use EX slot for ss or ambush, so can a team that can't reach 50% def debuff with kami only run Shingen?
Also would 0 star Hraes worth using as sub to cover the lack of debuff for Shingen?

You need to rethink, what EX skill is for. It's there to fill a hole in your team (be it debuff, utility skill, whatever), not using ability that DMM players use. Use Shingen with SS and see whether it's better than Herc. Use Shingen with her EX skill and see whether it's better than any of those. Adapt to situation, think for yourself, don't force yourself to play how people tell you too.

Originally Posted by codavis2

Why are Hercules and Shingen considered the best souls to use? Is it just cause of their damage?

There's a couple of reasons, but damage is the main one, yes. The "which Soul should I use?" thread should list Herc at the moment, and once I get to update it then it'll also list Shingen's good sides. Well, Shingen's good side is basically her new EX skill which guarantees a PF Full Burst every 7 turns with zero help from other Hime. Realistically much faster than that, though.

But this is a pretty good way to put it though:

Originally Posted by Gludateton

You need to rethink, what EX skill is for. It's there to fill a hole in your team (be it debuff, utility skill, whatever), not using ability that DMM players use. Use Shingen with SS and see whether it's better than Herc. Use Shingen with her EX skill and see whether it's better than any of those. Adapt to situation, think for yourself, don't force yourself to play how people tell you too.

In other words, running Herc PF or Shingen new EX might be the optimal way to play, but that assumes that you're running a team who are basically perfect by themselves. If you don't have that, chances are high that you need to run Herc with whatever EX completes your team, since Herc is just stupid good.

So with Vohu Manah what team will be the "water meta"?

Which one's the better eidolon effect?: "Thunder characters' ATK UP 40%/HP UP 20%" or "Thunder ATK UP 40%/Water RST UP"?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So with Vohu Manah what team will be the "water meta"?

I'd think that Shingen-Vohu-Saraswati-Ryu-Oh-anyone? Vohu and Saraswati compliment each other really well, and Ryu-Oh with Vohu hits -50%/-50% against Fire enemies. And gives you BP. Last slot is a wild card for anything that you want, like Cthulhu for back-up debuffs, Snow Raph for damage cut, Asherah for burst even more memes, Shiva for general damage output.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Which one's the better eidolon effect?: "Thunder characters' ATK UP 40%/HP UP 20%" or "Thunder ATK UP 40%/Water RST UP"?

For damage? The first one is Character Atk, the second one is Elemental Atk (as it doesn't mention Character). The super simplified damage formula is "CharacterAtk*ElementalAtk*baseAtk"

Confused? It means whichever you have less of. Since CharacterAtk is the same thing you get from your weapons (Assault), in general this means that Elemental is better. As a rule of thumb, always pick Elemental UNLESS you have all of this:
1. fighting with elemental advantage (because that gives you 45% ElementalAtk)
2. have an offensive Soul weapon (because that's ElementalAtk)
3. are using a 100% Eidolon
With all three and a good Grid, Character and Elemental tends to be about the same. I've made a damage calc for this, which may or may not help to clarify.

For survival? If you have fair amounts of HP or heals, the latter as it is -10% damage taken, but remember, only against Water.

And finally, reminder that Medjed has an active which is way better than Ygg's.

Originally Posted by Mraktar

I don't recommend Herc=>Shingen if you will lose 50% def down. But if you can get -50% def with Shingen ss/ambush - why not? Make a playtest and deside. About Hrae as sub - bad plan. You can use Hrae on turn 8, Herc axe is much faster. On wind team with friend's Hrae on turn 1 things are completely different.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

You need to rethink, what EX skill is for. It's there to fill a hole in your team (be it debuff, utility skill, whatever), not using ability that DMM players use. Use Shingen with SS and see whether it's better than Herc. Use Shingen with her EX skill and see whether it's better than any of those. Adapt to situation, think for yourself, don't force yourself to play how people tell you too.

Thanks, need to wait until next UE to see how things work out with Shingen

Originally Posted by Mraktar

-- About Hrae as sub - bad plan. You can use Hrae on turn 8, Herc axe is much faster. --

Hraes has a 10 CD cooldown, not 8. That doesn't necessarily make it bad though, since there's some content where it'll take you 10 turns to reach the place where you want the Def down anyway.

Oh, and Vine would have 8 turn CD and has higher hitrate than Hraes, but only -10% and has a pitiful statline.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

I guess exceeds can't be useful for ults, fair enough.

When you reach the power level to hit 1m against Ults, you're not exactly going to need any Exceeds against them since you should be strong enough to AAB all of them. Wait, except Dark, probably. Because fuck Dark. There is no other consistent 8 Def content either.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Then how about this:
Attachment 12132
Mammon, with no crit and 2 stacks of snatch... crap, there's TAphro here, can't hit burst cap like nothing when TAphro is involved, my bad.

Your attachment is broken. Just use imgur, it's more reliable than HBC attachments sadly.

And yes, Thunder Aphro gets you ~35% more damage, which would get me to need more than one Exceed (as I could expect ~1.35m when Crits happen). So what? Getting a Limited Edition Hime is not a matter of skill. Neither is getting P2W Eidolons. I'll accept Aether as she's been in a Miracle Ticket, but outside of that... how exactly does one need the increased cap from Exceed? With a full, and I mean FULL FLB Grid, I can see needing one (1) Exceed weapon. Add one more for a P2W Eidolon, and/or add one more for Thunder Aphro. Not sure how much of an impact Phantom weapons will have in the long run. Need to play around in the calc.

Still don't see the reason to put Exceed on a pedestal. You're going to use it, but only because the game just hands you some and you don't get to choose.

Originally Posted by Slashley

When you reach the power level to hit 1m against Ults, you're not exactly going to need any Exceeds against them since you should be strong enough to AAB all of them.

I don't even know whether I can AAB any ult... well, I hate AAB, so not even going to check.
Anyway, never said I need exceed, it just helps. Honestly though, where would you NEED exceed ? I suppose on hrags, where else ? Maybe tower if you want to clear floor few turns faster. In most cases you don't need it, it just helps get damage higher.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Your attachment is broken. Just use imgur, it's more reliable than HBC attachments sadly.

Weird, it works for me... anyway, that's 1.085m damage Mammon, without crit. Had also Shingen with 1.22m with crit on 35% DEF down Andromalius, but she didn't even need exceed weapon for that (MP enhancements).

Originally Posted by Slashley

And yes, Thunder Aphro gets you ~35% more damage, which would get me to need more than one Exceed (as I could expect ~1.35m when Crits happen). So what? Getting a Limited Edition Hime is not a matter of skill. Neither is getting P2W Eidolons. I'll accept Aether as she's been in a Miracle Ticket, but outside of that... how exactly does one need the increased cap from Exceed? With a full, and I mean FULL FLB Grid, I can see needing one (1) Exceed weapon. Add one more for a P2W Eidolon, and/or add one more for Thunder Aphro. Not sure how much of an impact Phantom weapons will have in the long run. Need to play around in the calc.

Still don't see the reason to put Exceed on a pedestal. You're going to use it, but only because the game just hands you some and you don't get to choose.

Because getting Aether from MT is matter of skill obviously. Need for exceeds with Aether is debatable though (for now that is), her buff raises cap.
Exceed is on pedestal, because it helps bring higher damage from burst, sometimes much higher. And it doesn't have to be TAphro or Aether. It can be stun punisher, it can be Sati with 50% guaranteed crit, it can be Vigor from Isis. In future you will have Atum with 50% Vigor, Vahagn with 50% Vigor, Kamihime with 200 BG, Neptune with 20% Assault per stack and list can probably go on. Does this mean, that everybody will need exceed ? Probably not, but it's always nice to hit 1.3m burst instead of 1.03m one (or anything higher for that matter).