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  1. #1
    Unregistered Guest
    Can anyone tell me the difference between (element) CHARACTER ATK (from Lilims) and (element) ATK?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Can anyone tell me the difference between (element) CHARACTER ATK (from Lilims) and (element) ATK?
    Char atk is assault - same as assault weapons, atk is elemental - same as offensive soul weapon. People often then ask which one is better, so let me preemptively cover that, too by showing the simplified damage formula:

    Dmg = base atk * (1 + assault) * (1 + elemental) * (1 + special atk) * bunch of other stuff that

    I am assuming you don't own a 100%+ eidolon, 'cos if you do, just use that and dun need to read the rest of this post.
    • When you're first starting out, and have not slvl your weapons yet, assault and elemental are the same - pick whichever one gives you the highest number.
    • When you've slvl a bunch of assault weapon, assault value tends to far exceed elemental, in which case elemental eidolons are usually better.
    • When you have a maxed out elemental atk soul weapon and you have 100% eido support (friend or not, doesn't matter), char atk eidolons can be better.
    • During UE, grail buffs are assault, so elemental eidolons are typically best then.


    tl;dr - for char atk vs elemental atk, pick the one you have less of.

    Note about Lilim: her char atk only applies if you have 3 different elements on your main team (subs dun count.) So if someone dies and you no longer have 3 different elements, you get zero bonus from her.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    --
    Dmg = base atk * (1 + assault) * (1 + elemental) * (1 + special atk) * bunch of other stuff that
    --
    While you are not wrong, that looks very intimidating towards people who aren't mathematically inclined. I tend to say it in simpler terms:

    Damage is CharacterAtk*ElementalAtk, when super simplified. So the one which is better is the one you have less of.
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    --
    Note about Lilim: her char atk only applies if you have 3 different elements on your main team (subs dun count.) So if someone dies and you no longer have 3 different elements, you get zero bonus from her.
    Another note about Lilims: 90% Character Atk for 3/5 units is NOT good. It's basically "regain the damage output that you lost"

    It is extremely difficult to make Lilim builds work. Please don't even try.

  4. #4
    Unregistered Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    It is extremely difficult to make Lilim builds work. Please don't even try.
    Hmmmm... How about builds using the phantom Lilim?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Hmmmm... How about builds using the phantom Lilim?
    Nope. Same problem, your Grid can only properly support 3 of the units. However, caveat here, for very new players WITHOUT a single proper Grid, Phantom Lilim might be okay-ish. Especially if you have good debuffers off-element like Ryu-Oh or something.

    Because that is a very, very, VERY narrow niche, please use your Phantom Support slot for Drop+ Eidolons, namely Vlad/Anzu/Sleipnir.

  6. #6
    Unregistered Guest

    Event farming, ap 20 vs ap 30

    Has anyone done any good analysis/drop logging for farming events on ap 20 vs ap 30 for rainbow drops per ap spent?

    The rumor people repeat is ap20 is better for drops in the long run for total ap spent, but I've yet to see any indication where that originated from. Is it just an old wives tale?

  7. #7
    Unregistered Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Nope. Same problem, your Grid can only properly support 3 of the units. However, caveat here, for very new players WITHOUT a single proper Grid, Phantom Lilim might be okay-ish. Especially if you have good debuffers off-element like Ryu-Oh or something.

    Because that is a very, very, VERY narrow niche, please use your Phantom Support slot for Drop+ Eidolons, namely Vlad/Anzu/Sleipnir.
    I use Phantom Lilim for my paralyze group. No Thor so i have to use several paralyze hime (Prometheus, Baylor, and whatever the dark R is). I then add these three to my strongest grid's soul and one person from that group. I've found it works well since no one should be dieing when done right and therefore you have the damage up from the edo the whole time. So there are definitely uses for her, albeit not a lot.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Has anyone done any good analysis/drop logging for farming events on ap 20 vs ap 30 for rainbow drops per ap spent?

    The rumor people repeat is ap20 is better for drops in the long run for total ap spent, but I've yet to see any indication where that originated from. Is it just an old wives tale?
    Such a thing isn't possible, outside of:
    1. An automated script that multiple people run and automatically combines data on some server.
    2. Botting with infinite AP.

    So, don't get your hopes up. It is unlikely that we'll ever know the truth. I'd just stick to the 30 AP ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I use Phantom Lilim for my paralyze group. No Thor so i have to use several paralyze hime (Prometheus, Baylor, and whatever the dark R is). I then add these three to my strongest grid's soul and one person from that group. I've found it works well since no one should be dieing when done right and therefore you have the damage up from the edo the whole time. So there are definitely uses for her, albeit not a lot.
    Yeah, but don't delude yourself thinking that your damage is good in a setup like this. Is it more than with a non-Lilim? Yes. Is it good? Oh, hell no.

    Union events are a team-fight thing, too. So one person running a Para group and another dealing the damage is probably a much better idea than trying to tailor a Para group INTO dealing damage. There's only three slots available at any time too, so you only need 4/30 people online at the same time for you to need to share the fight.

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