Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Let's see what we have here..
So things started from numerous light mains while barely any dark. That is true. Unfortunately, dark seems to be in a bad period regarding their unit upgrades for a long time at DMM, be it a new hime or a previous getting AW or rebalance. Lots of strong self buffers & whatnots, but lacking something that integrate those into a team. They're still the slowest at DMM with their burst cycles.

Light has been hyped & overhyped for about as long as dark had its.. dark period. No wonders on that, they really suddenly rounded up to be an amazing element from basically nothing in a small time span of half year. Starting from Tish + Mike AW until Iris including old units rebalances as well as great new units. The thing one shouldn't forget that it's been almost a year since Iris' release and light didn't get any relevant new unit meanwhile. Sure Michiru is fun to play with due to ridiculous amount of assault bonuses, but that's about all she brings, VBaal sounds like an amazing unit.. until you realize, light has units that already do every of her ability better, talk about wasted potential. She would have been great for any other element. Oh, and Hastur who was never to be seen after her release. All of them limited & no actual improvements to the element.
However, there was still a rebalance for Athena which made her do her tanking job properly. That, and Eros AW who admittedly turned out great.. against debuffing content. That two has been the only improvement since, and that's almost half a year as well.

A year without new units, and half a year without whatsoever improvement. While the result that it's still a top pick as an element despite that talks for itself, it left plenty of opening for other elements to catch up.

Thunder rounded up to be another great overall pick with most himes being useful in a way or another. It already had TAphro+Marduk AW combo at the time light ascended. That combo could bring normal attacks to a ridiculous level due to the combination of vigour+castle with its pursuit above the already high normal attacks and TAphro's barrier helps keeping it up. Not to mention it's also a way to mitigate incoming damage in order to keep vigour going. Then they got an amazing healer - Dian - who does literally everything a healer needs to and in pretty short intervals due to CD refresh on burst. Jupiter got rebalanced to stupid levels from where she started becoming a pretty reliable unit having speed, nuke & party buff.. oh, and echo. Raiko AW became the damage cutter. Above her CD6 DUR2 cut (30% off-element & 50% vs. water) which gets -2CD every burst, she has party-wide zeal to speed up your units and possibly activating her new passive which further decreases the CDs. And a potent 25% atk down. Nuwa can further increase the already ridiculous normal attacks with crit/cap up + rampage, also having atk/def debuff and giving DATA buff to the whole party with her burst. ... I'm getting tired of inputting wiki info here, point being I'm trying to look for a thunder hime without much of a use, but I really have to look, then I find uhh.. Halloween Mike, Mammon utterly useless & Tyr AW, Ymir hard to find a use.

Then we got wind which also been getting more & more potent since and after Azzy AW (for the record, let's go through this most borken unit beside Mike AW again: CD7 DUR5 50% atk/def buff 50% DATA and a meager 5% DoT, and another CD7 DUR5 30% cut, 300 drain, 500 regen, both of them available party-wide). Wind became rather nuke heavy the past months which made them the rulers of the recent short Dummies and probably going to do great at tower as well while their DPS & overall utilities also improved a lot.

Water showing signs of improvement as well still having amazing defensive measures and Diana doing similar job as TAphro, Pluto providing stackable DATA buff (meaning that it also stacks with normal DATA buffs), Shiva AW doing nukes & party damage buffing and Cthulhu AW doing an amazing job at cucking the boss from doing damage and party BG while at it.

Finally, fire.. not changing much, still doing great in the kill before getting killed space whale realm.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And Light probably has similar things to all of the above, all in one element. I'm not saying that Light has any single Hime that can give Thunder Aphro amount of damage output, but you can't run 4x Thunder Aphros. A few, EXACT specimen scattered around the other elements doesn't exactly make them compare to how insane Light is.

Nonsi (and my previous post) already covered most of it, but lemme add in a couple too:

What does Thunder have, outside of Raiko's -30% (or Athena against Water)? Because I don't think that -30% is going to do much against something like a loose Thunder Rag.

Correction: Refreshable 30% general dmg cut + 20% Water cut for 2T, combined with Marduk's Fortress and DianCecht's endless healing... does it look like Thunder needs anything more?

And what does Wind have, outside of exactly one Hime - Gaia? Yeah, Gaia will buy you two turns against Thunder Rag by herself. But it's one turn against anything that doesn't do single turn.

I guess I'll do this since @Nonsensei was never able to tap into the Wind:

Azazel AW - Do I really have to introduce this absolute monster again?
Atum - -3CD + 100% Abi dmg + 50% Abi cap buff, a 750k nuke, and a Target Auto Rez + 100% Dmg cut x 3 times. Oh, and the ability to burst for 4m like Metatron AW. Did I mention the -3CD part?
Ishtar - Spammable nukes. Primary gimmick = Multi-activation Nukes + Normal-Attack-activation Nukes. Oh and not so important 30% A frame Attack down + Def down. Nuke!

Is there any point to this? As much as I entertain the thought of Mordred/Cthulhu/Snow Raph/Dagon/someone team, even at 100% success rate you won't be reaching Overdrive immunity.

Cthulhu AW + Soni- Er... Februus are already enough to completely shut down both FCat and Phaleg for you to cycle your otherwise long CD mitigations i.e. Poseidon. You don't even need BP for this. And that's just the gist of defensive Water, so not too important. We have new toys like Diana, Pluto and Dagda for offense.

I think the real question is - DOES Light even need such team dmg buffing when they already have such insane DPS machines?Sure, there are niches where other elements can surpass Light. So what? That's not the point. The point, you have to go LOOK for those niches because Light overall excels in Hime quality.

Yes, we kinda do actually. Dunno what this 'insane DPS' you talking about though. Afaik, we Light baka are great at being consistent and long-winded but insane? Not even close mang.

Make a list of bad SSR Hime. How many of those are Light? What % of each element's Hime are just awful? You should notice that Light excels far above the others in this regard. And this makes Light easy to main. Which was the question here, now wasn't it?

Sure

:disgustedAmon: Tier:
Light - Satan, Nike
Thunder - Mike

Niche Tier:
Light - Raphy, Hastur
Thunder - Tyr

Victim Tier:
Light - Tsukuyomi
Thunder - Mammon

Hmm... Light and Thunder are about even you know? Didn't mention it but Wind does suffer a bit more in the Power Creep Victim category though.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

Finally, fire.. not changing much, still doing great in the kill before getting killed space whale realm.

But but but... Freyr

:sadpOtato:


Apollo qt

Originally Posted by Bear

See, when you say Light has versatility as advantage not DPS, you're not thinking endgame.

Thunder... most importantly, they have the 'right' versatility.

Yes, I still can't wanpan most GO bosses, so I still find light's versatility very helpful. But yeah, I recognize that things change when you progress towards the end-game.

Raiko AW

When does she get the AW? I actually wasn't even aware that she gets an AW (thunder is my worst element, I didn't even read up on all these himes until you and nonsensei pointed them out =P) I actually have Raiko, so maybe I should pay more attention...

The best part, most of these buffs do not require micro as much as Light units do.

Ok, yeah, light IS very clicky...

NewYear Afro with her Party vigor

Yes, her vigor buff is very strong, but isn't she limited? I prefer not planning around limited himes since I don't have the whaling power to make them drop reliably.

Btw, slightly off-topic but, why does no one care about Isis for wind? I actually found her 20% vigor pretty useful in the last tower, and she can soak up dmg to keep everyone else at full health. Maybe not as good as the TAphro + Marduk AW combo, but still a nice dmg boost.

Also, you mentioned holding your own ground against TCat as Light, but then will you be able to do more than just VMVP?

Admittedly no... I usually lose to MVP by about 10-30 mil

p.s. Before you attempt the 'Light can be played as single element' argument, I'll just inform you that... a couple Thunder baka that I know over here simply just brute force through Wind raids.... and still do enough dmg to MVP (50~70m dmg).

That is... impressive... I guess my remaining argument is that I find light 'fun' to play with 'cos it's so easy to build different teams for different bosses. I readily concede that that kind of thinking is sub-optimal for competitive play though

Originally Posted by nonsensei

Let's see what we have here..

Firstly, happy to see you posting here again!

The thing one shouldn't forget that it's been almost a year since Iris' release and light didn't get any relevant new unit meanwhile.

Would it be correct to characterize that the golden age of light peaked around Iris and we are about to see other elements come closer to parity/dethrone light in the coming year? Still waiting for dark to catch up though... Dark Takeminakata looks solid at least, her kit looks similar to Lugh.

VBaal sounds like an amazing unit.. until you realize, light has units that already do every of her ability better, talk about wasted potential.

Is she that bad? On paper, she seems like a good alternative to Athena when you don't need the cover. She's the only limited light hime that I even paid attention to, though I still won't spend anything other than jewels at trying to pull her.

Jupiter got rebalanced to stupid levels from where she started becoming a pretty reliable unit having speed, nuke & party buff.. oh, and echo.

Interesting, I don't hear her mentioned much. It looks like her rebalance doesn't come until early next year if I'm not misreading the wiki?

Originally Posted by Bear

Victim Tier:
Light - Tsukuyomi

Light Tsukuyomi isn't that bad though. Completely outclassed by Lugh and Iris yes, but I won't consider her a 'bad' draw for when you're just starting out. Or is that why she's not in the same category as light Satan and Nike? Sorry, Tsuku was one of my first light SSR and we've been through a lot together, will be sad to see her go

Originally Posted by Bear

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Originally Posted by nonsensei

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Ah yes, let's talk about one year into future, about all of the fantastic Thunder Hime that we don't even have yet, and that we can't get (such as Thunder Aphro). Let's entirely ignore HERE AND TODAY. Yeah, Light won't get much for the next year. So what? You're basically saying is that Light mains now will be fine one year from now, without any additions to their teams. That doesn't sound like a bad thing.

Also, reminder that on Nutaku, Jewels have basically zero chance to find you Rate Up stuff from the gacha. That means that even if people wanted to get stuff like Perkele etc., it simply won't happen outside of a Miracle Ticket. At least thank heavens that 2020 Miracle Ticket will HOPEFULLY allow us to pick Thunder Aphro. But who knows with Nutaku.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Ah yes, let's talk about one year into future, about all of the fantastic Thunder Hime that we don't even have yet, and that we can't get (such as Thunder Aphro). Let's entirely ignore HERE AND TODAY. Yeah, Light won't get much for the next year. So what? You're basically saying is that Light mains now will be fine one year from now, without any additions to their teams. That doesn't sound like a bad thing.

Also, reminder that on Nutaku, Jewels have basically zero chance to find you Rate Up stuff from the gacha. That means that even if people wanted to get stuff like Perkele etc., it simply won't happen outside of a Miracle Ticket. At least thank heavens that 2020 Miracle Ticket will HOPEFULLY allow us to pick Thunder Aphro. But who knows with Nutaku.

Originally Posted by Slashley

But all Light SSRs are either really fucking good or are going to be buffed to be really fucking good.

"Are going to be buffed" = indicating future, then process to bash ppl for talking about future.

And gacha is gacha, it's RNG to begin with. In DMM rate up is not always guaranteed to give you banner (looking at the recent one day banner). I've seen many taco-er get 2-3 ssr in 1 pull. So maybe u are just talking about your bad luck

Not to mention that majority of staple/good himes in dmm right now are not limited (t.aphro is good, but for raid like ophiel/wacat dian is much more desired)

So what I got from this conversation is...dark is going to remain absolute shite for at least another year?

light Argos makes my non existent penis v happy ngl

Originally Posted by Nik

So what I got from this conversation is...dark is going to remain absolute shite for at least another year?

They've done a few rebalances on some of dark himes (in dec iiirc), and thanatos also got her AW, so they aren't quite AS bad... but nothing so far has fixed the fundamental issues of dark being just way too slow and reliant on the okay-but-not-great Osiris, who is just not quite enough for the job (desperately needs AW).

feels bad when game gives me 2 anubis and no other hundos. like its forcing me to play the worst element when I wanna switch to another. just doesnt feel as good when u arent using a hundo

Originally Posted by Nik

So what I got from this conversation is...dark is going to remain absolute shite for at least another year?

Well... yes. Dark has been "Good" for long enough so DMM buffed the CRAP out of Light with stupid as shit Awakenings and Himes from fucking nowhere. I still have yet to see a proper Wind meta like Fire or Water had.