Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Cool. If so, why didn't you post so, you know, in the thread itself? You did post in it after all.

And then the rest of your post is basically:

Point's 1 through 5 of counter trash talking.

Alright I apologize, you started the trash talking here and I continued it here. But you are also right, you're not an idiot. What you say is idiotic. I believe we've had this argument for quite awhile, and you intentionally keep missing the synergy inherent in vigor and ascension that goes with a damage cut guide. This is a flaw in your perception, not in the skills. It's readily apparent in the guide you wrote, but it's your guide and I'm not going to own/embellish/correct it. That's your choice. Rather than editing your guide (to eliminate the wrong things you say) or creating another post in your guide, I'll just write my intro that I would have started out a damage cut guide with and correct some of your biases and misconceptions (from a high-level understanding). I will post it here and not in your thread, because a) that's your thread, b) you shit-talked here and not there so I choose to respond here.

Also your statements about Exceed are just plain idiotic and distracting. They have no basis in any of the damage cut material we've been talking about. Please stop being a pain in the ass by stating something I never said. You definitely want 3 sources of Exceed in a grid built for damage cut. What you don't want is defense or pride as they're not nearly as valuable as vigor and ascension. Please stop with this bullshit distraction. Always assume that I would want and build a grid with 3 sources of exceed. For elements or teams that can't get it currently... them's the break, but I'm not saying that you don't want it. If you can't get it, you need to build with what you can. Just please stop with this train of thinking. Such minor, off track, pedantic counter-arguments that you constantly state is why people hate you... but I'm going to work on making sure that I don't call you an idiot (as that's mean and incorrect) and instead state that those statements are idiotic.


A How-to Damage Cut Guide for Kamihime:

What Is It:
Damage Cut is one of the most powerful abilities in Kamihime. It works as a percentage and basically does two things: a) reduces all damage taken by the percentage amount and b) reduces by the percentage your chance of being afflicted with a resistable debuff. If you achieve 100% damage cut you a) reduce all damage to your Himes (floating damage numbers will be zero when hit) and b) resist any resistable debuff (floating indicator stating miss on an applied debuff). Damage cut as an explicit ability is fairly limited and so most players assume that it's not easy to gain high levels of damage cut. This isn't actually true in Kamihime. There are 3 basic sources for damage cut (with two of them that have two different frames) that are additive, one source that is multiplicative, and one 'hidden' source that is super multiplicative. All told there are 7 unique types of damage cut that you can stack to help get you to that zero damage taken. We'll talk about all of these sources below. Usually for a power that is as powerful as damage cut there is an explicit disadvantage with using it. For a 'defensive' ability the simple idea is that teams that stack damage cut to become super defensive give up offensive capability. This, yet again, in Kamihime is not true. There is a single skill that gives damage cut teams additional damage output over and above basic additive offensive abilities that more than makeup for any perceived loss in damage output. You can have a super tanky super strong team in Kamihime, if you build it right.


Sources of Damage Cut:
The three basic sources of damage cut are damage cut, reflection, and elemental resist. Within basic damage cut there are two frames that stack: A-frame and Stacking Frame. Within Elemental Resist there are also two frames that stack: A-frame and Summon Frame. All of these sources stack with each other additively. For example if you have an ability with 10% damage cut, another ability with 20% reflection and the third ability with elemental resist 20% you would have a total damage cut of 50%. Also note that Stacking Frame damage cut also stacks with other sources of Stacking Frame damage cut. Damage cut and Reflect are applicable to all sources of damage, while elemental resist is only applicable to a single element (i.e. fire elemental resist only affects damage from fire sources/monsters). This covers the basic additive sources. Defense is another source of damage cut, but, unlike the others listed here, is multiplicative in nature (and also affects the amount of damage cut given by its reciprocal). If you had 20% defense, you would have an additional 17% damage cut (reduce damage by 1/1.2 or 0.83 damage taken) that would multiply with your other sources of damage cuts. As an example if you had 20% defense up and 20% damage cut from other sources your final damage would be reduced by 1-(0.83 * 0.8) = 1 - 0.66 = 0.34 or 34%. The defense attribute drops off fairly dramatically (it's reciprocal stacks and then it's multiplicative), but it is a source of damage cut and, more importantly, it's applied prior to the super multiplicative damage cut source. So don't intentionally dismiss it or ignore it. Always check to see if it helps and if it's freely available. You can usually find this ability on a Hime/Soul with damage cut; it's there for a reason! It's another source of damage cut (usually constant as opposed to a set number of turns) and is mostly used to help the super multiplicative source of damage cut.
The last source of damage cut (the super multiplicative source) is just basic healing! You always want strong sources of healing with any damage cut team. Damage Cut multiplies all sources of healing making it an effective 'final' source of damage cut. Consider the following example: You have 10k hit points and are taking 4k in damage per round. If you had nothing else you'd die on turn 3 (first turn of damage your down to 6k hp, second 2k hp, and third turn dead). If you had 50% damage cut you'd be taking 2k damage per round and could survive 5 turns (8k, 6k, 4k, 2k and then zero). If you had 500 hitpoints of healing and no damage cut, you'd also only live for three rounds (6.5k, 3k, zero) and the healing makes no difference. But if you had both the 50% damage cut AND 500 hitpoints of healing, you'd live for 7 turns (8.5k, 7k, 5.5k, 4k, 2.5k, 1k, zero). In essence, your healing is multiplied by the prior damage cut. The 50% damage cut changes your 10% damage cut from healing to 20% damage cut from healing. It's like you have 70% damage cut with both abilities (50% from damage cut and 20% from healing). If you also had an additional 25% defense ability (for 20% damage cut) you would then have an overall damage cut of 1- (0.8 * 0.3) of 76% damage cut. This doesn't seem like a lot more, but as you get to higher amounts of damage cut it stops scaling linearly and starts scaling exponentially. That extra 6% in overall damage cut was basically 25% extra survivability. Stacking as many sources of damage cut and healing is how you make a truly damage resistant team. (As an aside, this is usually the reason our union recommends Andromeda as the go-to soul for a damage cut team versus Joan even though Joan sports damage cut. You really want the healing that Andro has due to its super multiplicative nature with other sources of damage cut. Joan's damage cut isn't constant enough to make it a great source of damage cut. Himes and Eidolons just do it better.)

There you go. I'd next talk about how Ascension (since it affects healing i.e. the super multiplicative damage cut) is a very very important skill to have in your grid. (In the above example with 25% defense, 50% damage cut, and a 10% healing damage cut, an additional 50% healing isn't an additional 50% healing but really an additional 125% healing or 25% healing damage cut.) Adding an additional 50% healing is just two ascension weapons. And, if you can spare it, getting 100% ascension in your grid into a team that has damage cut is a huge amount of additional damage cut. It brings about the long term survivability that basic damage cut doesn't, we'd talk about Eido sources for damage cut (best source but single element) and Himes (both SSRs and SRs). After that, we'd wrap up with now that you've built the super-resistant damage cut team, how Vigor is the damage enhancement for damage cut teams that allows you to have a higher constant damage output than base assault/pride teams and why you aren't supposed to lose vigor for most of the fight (except on single Himes that get double or triple hit). You now have a potentially meta team build that can hang and potentially clear all content. Lastly, we'd talk about ancillary abilities that are enhanced by damage cut abilities (like affliction resist- pure garden etc.) and how you want to scale that into the team.


Dejnov.