Good catch. That is a mistake in my outline. Only Elemental Resist reduces debuff chance and those other skills that can (plus debuff resistance skills) cause a miss can make debuffs miss.Originally Posted by Slashley
I'm just classifying them similar in nature to how the wiki does. https://kamihime-project.fandom.com/...ties#DMG%20CutExample of latter, please? I am unaware of any "stacking" frame damage cuts, unless they're very recent into Kamihime or a thing in the future. But since A-frame already stacks, what's the difference anyway...?
I make no comment on whether the wiki is wrong or right, but that it's the base point for people to get their information and I am happy to follow the structure laid down by those who have done more work/groundwork that I'm utilizing.
I'm generally not interested in shitposting and dick-waving contests. Please make rationale on-point arguments and not lame-ass counterpoints that don't do anything to move the discussion forward. Also please refrain from shitting on other people's choices for elements. Dark is not a shitty element. It can do fine and has plenty of valuable tools in its skillset. While you might not like the fact that they have trouble getting exceed, that is not a reason to say they are fucked. They have a Labyrinth Hammer coming later this year and you can always MTix Berith multiple times for her and gun. People who have spent to roll an Anubis will not have issues finding an extra $100 for two Berith Guns. Especially with the fact that Berith is a top Hime for Dark. If you can agree to do that, I can agree to keep posting. Please stop badmouthing skills you don't want to like. I don't care that you don't like vigor and ascension, but I do not need you posting about how they suck and people who use it are playing the game wrong. They are not; I've seen enough builds that are top tier that use vigor and ascension well that your statements on them are wrong. You're allowed to dislike them, but you're not allowed to say that they're crap.And then... your post kinda pewtered off. You posted before you were finished with the post?
Yes. I'd be happy to civilly answer a couple of follow-on questions.Well, regardless, can you answer some basic questions, please? Since without the same premise, there cannot be an argument.
1. What defines what is and what is not a "damage cut team"?
2. Do you AAB with a "damage cut team"?
3. How does one build for a "damage cut team" Grid which - I assume since your post is unfinished - strongly relies upon Vigor and Ascension, two largely unavailable weapon skills?
1) Most people define a damage cut team as a team that can reliably achieve 70-80+% damage cut constantly. I believe that the amount of assault and element attack you give up to do this makes those types of teams useless for most normal play. I don't really build teams like that as they're only truly needed in forced solo content (i.e. tower and that's it). I tend to favor strong utilization of damage cut in teams that, while they could solo content, are actually built to have fun and play in a raid. This will lead to having much lower levels of damage cut (typically 20-40% constant damage cut). Most players can do this and not sacrifice any combat ability (other than having a Hime which might not have strong offensive abilities). I am a strong proponent of Dark players to utilize damage cut builds in their teams. They are one of the few elements that have too many sources of damage cut (Nefertem, Pluto, Cernunnos) and their teams can be some of the most durable teams hands down. Having a top tier SR damage cut Hime (Cernunnos) means that every Dark team can be a damage cut team without spending large amounts of money. If you happen to get Pluto or Nefertem, then you're typically golden and your dark teams durability shoots up dramatically. With utilizing Idun (free Hime also), there is nothing stopping a Dark player from making a viable team that can clear all content (might need help, but won't be completely useless). The only other thing that you need to add is one or two On-Element Resist Eidolons (Kaiser preferred, Dragoon if nothing else) into your 5 sub slots to give an additional source of damage cut for those incredibly dangerous ODs or to give a staggering level of resistance. You might lose up to 1000 attack and like 8% element attack, but that is really very little for the added protection of getting 20% to 30% for 3 or 2 rounds to help reduce an overdrive. This is a viable source that is free for all players (Dragoons come through gacha and everyone can buy a Kaiser for 10k Eido Orbs per element that is needed) in the store. Once you're stronger you can drop this as needed from your builds if you find you don't need it. As an example: I had six thunder teams with Raiko, 1 On Element Kaiser, and Andromeda to fight each Guardian. That was enough damage cut to safely make it through most guardian raids solo or near solo. I have since dropped all of those teams except the Thunder team for Phul (which is now Raiko, Wind Kaiser, Joan with a random spear/Shingen spear, and Dian) as that one is a guardian I try and run daily (and it's usually hard to find tons of players that want to run it).
2. I do not initially AAB with a damage cut team as none of my teams are constant damage cut teams. You will have to manual a damage cut team in a raid if participation stays low. If players pop in (and some other Andros), you can usually then defer to AABing. Low level of participation forces the AABing. With Trags, I usually have to manual, but once the raid hits 10 or more players, it's safe to move to AABing and you can watch the raid proceed. The point of utilizing a damage cut team in raid content is to enable survivability until you reach critical mass for the raid. While this seems more effort, the added advantage is that your teams are usually very close to your raiding team. As an example: I don't change my grid for my racing team, I usually drop the On Element Kaiser, switch out Dian for Samael, and I switch my soul to Shingen. That's usually it.
3. I build it like everyone else, with what I've got. You need three Exceed sources, potentially up to 100% ascension and as much vigor as possible. If this is theoretical, then
a) 3 Sources of Assault/Exceed
b) 3 or 4 Sources of Assault/Vigor/Ascension (to 100% ascension)
c) 2 Sources of Assault/Vigor (M or L)
My current grid is nowhere near this though.
Dejnov.
P.S. On second thought, I will post an appended brief of my thoughts to your guide. Thank you for offering that option. I appreciate it.
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Last edited by Dejnov; 05-13-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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Humm, curious. Most of "A" frame damage cuts are 100% and stuff that I believed to be "immune" buffs... I will need to test and fix quite a lot of these in the Encyclopedia. Because there is a big difference between "immune" and "100% damage cut." Originally Posted by Dejnov
I... don't understand one bit where this came from? If you've been holding beef with me from some past post, you probably should've brought it up back then? Originally Posted by Dejnov
Now then... "Dark is not a shitty element. It can do fine and has plenty of valuable tools in its skillset" objectively speaking... Dark is shitty. Dark really, really suffers in Hime quality overall. Most elements have some true heroes among them, such that you can just MT and you're instantly fine. For Dark... ... there... really isn't any. They have lots of strong individual Hime (with +150% Assault being a recurring theme), but all of them kind of just... do their own thing. Which is not ideal. But hey, it works. If Dark existed in a bubble, it would be perfectly fine, but when you compare Dark to other elements, you go "... well, I guess it doesn't work well enough."
As for skillset, uh, outside of the brand spanking new Nefertem, uh, not really no? I mean, she is literally Dark's only Hime that doesn't go "hey, I will do my thing and you guys can do your thing." Two others come close. Like Pluto, who is awful by today's standards and badly needs an Awakening to drop her lego cooldown from 3-per-6t to 2-per-2t. And Osiris, who speeds up your team but is rather... unimpressive otherwise. I suppose if you also start bringing up SRs the list becomes longer, but I doubt that many elements would lose in that regard either.
Except Wind, since my god Wind SRs are fucking awful.
"While you might not like the fact that they have trouble getting exceed, that is not a reason to say they are fucked" now that Demon Union Events are gone (for a long time), this is literally true for every single element, not just Dark, man. And on a side note, I'm not even a fan of Exceed. Since I only AAB, you really only need 1 Exceed weapon in your entire Grid. It is a painfully limiting factor for stuff like Skill Checker-kun events though, as running manual with Shingen you often run into the problem of "I'd do just fine if I could just squeeze one more Exceed somehow... but that is just not possible."
"-- and you can always MTix Berith multiple times for her and gun. People who have spent to roll an Anubis will not have issues finding an extra $100 for two Berith Guns." No, no, no and absolutely no. No no no no no. Don't ever even consider this. MTing Hime for a weapon is a horrible horrible idea and you should never do it. Come on man, seriously. You're always missing one true hero of some element, and getting stronger overall is a way better idea than a slight improvement in one Grid. Even more so now that you can buy Limited Hime, so you should always get something which you can NEVER get from gacha.
Gacha please give me a second Marduk Hammer so that I can brick that and won't need to save them for Dark Labyrinth Hammers.
"Especially with the fact that Berith is a top Hime for Dark. If you can agree to do that, I can agree to keep posting" if "that" refers to all of the above, then dude, I'm not in the business of bending the truth to make somebody do something. If you want to keep posting, please do. I have always believed that arguments will improve everyone involved for the better unless it is a person incapable of learning and would thus be welcome from my end at least. But if by "that" you mean Berith, yes? I mean, she is one of the +150% Assault individually strong Hime in Dark, along with Susanoo and Chernobog. I mean she is nowhere near true beasts like Thunder Aphro or Michael Awakened, but as good as it gets in Dark.
Now then, with all of Dark downplaying said, you do know that Dark is my second-strongest element, right? I may have 160% Leviathan, but it simply doesn't do everything by itself since Water F2P Grid is merely okay quality. I mean, if you look at my Tower plans, Dark is always there for off-element clears. The Hime quality might not be great, but since I don't have a Light team (again, in KH, you use what you have!) there isn't much choice. I'd like to think that the devs specifically intended to give a fantastic F2P Grid for Dark with intentionally poor Hime quality. Jesus christ, we have so fucking many Envy Axes (15% Assault, L Pride bonus from losing HP, 18% HP each) that that shit is no joke. Too bad that new players can't just run a Hercules with a Phantom Envy Axe Grid, since that shit can clear pretty much any content just by hitting AAB. So new players have missed out on this amazing free Grid, but the low Hime quality in Dark is there forever. THANKS DEVS!Have I said that they're crap? I don't think that I've said that they're crap. I have said that I don't like them and I'm not a fan of them. I mean, just look at this: Originally Posted by Dejnov
The only thing I changed in those quotes is added bolds. Did I say that they're crap? No. I give my reasons as to why I don't find them the best stats ever, and if you disagree with that, you need to give your reason as to why. And on that note, there's my bigger post about weapon skills here. Effectively, the skills that I call shit are Rush, Barrage, Stinger and especially Elaborate. For Ascension I also do say that "isn't so much of a stat that you WANT, it's more of a stat that you NEED and only for SPECIFIC content." In addition, I warn about the risks involved with Vigor. Originally Posted by Slashley
The main point is, Assault and Defender will work always and for everything. Vigor and Ascension... do not. Is it possible to make them work? Yes. Should you recommend them to a new player? Absolutely not, let them get their basics straight first. This is further problematic since unlike Assault/Defender which are plentiful, Assault/(Vigor or Ascension) weapons are not. You didn't give me a specific answer to #3 either, just handwaved it away again. How exactly would a new player get their hands on such weapons again?
(Guardians make it possible for a few elements - specifically Thunder (Gun) and Water (Lance). Dark also has access to Ascension (Arcane), but even you said to go with the Guns, because goddamn the amount of Assault and HP on those Guns is amazing! Personally not getting them though since Envy Axes are about same grade, just far more defensive.)
And then finally to your answers...... wouldn't you call the first one a "turtle" team? Because terms are important. If we say that a "damage cut team is anything between 20%-80%+" then basically everything goes, no? So, I believe we can agree on "typically 20-40% constant damage cut" then? Originally Posted by Dejnov
Although, even that is pretty confusing to me. I mean, you keep touting Cern and Pluto. Cern has 30% per 5t (20% uptime) and Pluto has 30% per 2/8t (25% uptime). That gets you on average to 13,5% damage cut... and then when we add brand spanking new Nefertem with her 25% 2/5t (40% uptime) we reach 23,5% damage cut on average. Which I guess just barely reaches this 20% treshold. Though, when manualing, you don't exactly need to use these averages as damage cuts can be used only for OD turns. Still, that's not what "constant damage cut" means...
Another confusing part is, you claim to go to toe to toe with the strongest players with a build that has three units with zero offensive abilities. I mean, don't get me wrong, Nefertem is amazing and deserves her spot in any team that is looking to debuff and/or survive. Pluto can boost your full bursts a fair deal, but that's pretty much it. Cern... ... does absolutely nothing but reduce damage taken. That... still doesn't seem realistic in the slightest.
But, the real problem is here is that you're absolutely relying on Nefertem. This is a Hime who hasn't even been in a Miracle Ticket yet!! And you're still recommending this build to new players? How exactly are they going to go about it when they don't have the very cornerstone of such a build?!? I mean, I suppose you can kiiiinda make do without Nefertem, but then you need multiple Hime to offset that loss, and then you're damage output is even more in the pits.
"With utilizing Idun (free Hime also), there is nothing stopping a Dark player from making a viable team that can clear all content (might need help, but won't be completely useless)." I mean... you're not wrong... but... you can also make viable teams for any content without making a turtling/damage cut team? As soon as a player gets their hands on a full slvl20 SR Grid, they should be strong enough to clear almost all GOs (Jack excluded, but oh boy, a Dark turtling/damage cut team isn't going to do anything to her either). So, shouldn't these players rather go for the typical "kill it before it kills you" builds, which are significantly faster? Or do you have an example of a newer player clearing something like AQ7 especially early due to a build like this?
Thank you for answering #2. I don't fully agree with your idea on how to solo Disaster Rags/Guardians (until critical mass) since I think you can just put heals + HP buffer to begin with and AAB reliably from start to finish, but fair enough.
And I already mentioned what I thought about #3 answer...
PS. I'm not going to reply to you on guide side, mostly because that's slightly adjusted copypaste from this side. If you are going to reply though, feel free to do it on either side.
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If I nave an advent's mats' leftovers, will I be able to use them when (if) the advent gets reprinted?
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I'm like 99% sure that they do roll over. Originally Posted by Jessa
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Dammit. This statement is something I still totally disagree with... Dark does not suck. You do have to play it differently though. And Dark is getting great Himes this year also... Nefertem, DTake, DSvarog... I think you're totally wrong on the ability for dark to be able to be a strong viable team. Originally Posted by Slashley
I disagree with defender being needed in a grid anymore. You're better off getting Vigor and/or Ascension (especially Ascension). Your bang for buck is just better with Ascension than Defender.The main point is, Assault and Defender will work always and for everything. Vigor and Ascension... do not. Is it possible to make them work? Yes. Should you recommend them to a new player? Absolutely not, let them get their basics straight first. This is further problematic since unlike Assault/Defender which are plentiful, Assault/(Vigor or Ascension) weapons are not. You didn't give me a specific answer to #3 either, just handwaved it away again. How exactly would a new player get their hands on such weapons again?
(Guardians make it possible for a few elements - specifically Thunder (Gun) and Water (Lance). Dark also has access to Ascension (Arcane), but even you said to go with the Guns, because goddamn the amount of Assault and HP on those Guns is amazing! Personally not getting them though since Envy Axes are about same grade, just far more defensive.)
I agree that I'm not a fan of turtling (i.e. damage cut teams of 70-80%) and instead focus on just teams with overall damage cut of 20-40%.Although, even that is pretty confusing to me. I mean, you keep touting Cern and Pluto. Cern has 30% per 5t (20% uptime) and Pluto has 30% per 2/8t (25% uptime). That gets you on average to 13,5% damage cut... and then when we add brand spanking new Nefertem with her 25% 2/5t (40% uptime) we reach 23,5% damage cut on average. Which I guess just barely reaches this 20% treshold. Though, when manualing, you don't exactly need to use these averages as damage cuts can be used only for OD turns. Still, that's not what "constant damage cut" means...
You're not paying attention to the whole ensemble. You keep only focusing on the portions you like as opposed to the tools you can utilize. Let's just use Cernunnos, Andro on the team, and One On-Element 0LB Kaiser. Andro's Cursed Canting Chains gives 20% Defense 3/6T and Cerunnos can build to 40% Defense constant. that is 60%/40% 3/6T. This works out to damage cuts of 37.5%/28.5% constant damage cut for this team or 33% avg. damage cut. Cernunnos then gives 30% 1/5T or 6% average damage cut. An On Element Kaiser gives 20% 2/8T or 5% damage cut. Right now with all tools you have you're sporting 44% average damage cut. You now need to estimate the amount of damage cut that is coming from Andro's Heal. I like to assume 4k damage per round per Hime (fair and reasonable approximation for near endgame content) which means that you're taking 2.24k per round. Andro can heal 1.6k/5T or 320HP per round. That is base 8% damage cut or (after other sources of damage cut) equivalent to an additional 14.3% damage cut. This team currently runs 58.7% damage cut. You still have 3 Hime slots open. Now there are a ton of ifs and assumptions here. You might not like the 4k per round per hime approximation, if it's higher you do get less damage cut from Andro, but I don't think content goes much higher. If you get Nefertem, you can drop Andro and run Shingen. Joan and Andro are just there to fill slots for Himes you don't have. You could also run more Kaisers (5% avg.) and/or Dragoons (7.5% avg. MLB) as needed to up your defenses.
Relying on Nefertem as a core meta Hime is something ALL elements do once you're aiming for META. This is not a counterpoint against utilizing an effective damage cut team as your core build. All of the other choices required - Andro, Joan, Idun and Cernunnos are available and/or SRs. They are all available to new Dark players fairly easily. Once you have the ability to get better choices, upgrade as needed.Another confusing part is, you claim to go to toe to toe with the strongest players with a build that has three units with zero offensive abilities. I mean, don't get me wrong, Nefertem is amazing and deserves her spot in any team that is looking to debuff and/or survive. Pluto can boost your full bursts a fair deal, but that's pretty much it. Cern... ... does absolutely nothing but reduce damage taken. That... still doesn't seem realistic in the slightest.
But, the real problem is here is that you're absolutely relying on Nefertem. This is a Hime who hasn't even been in a Miracle Ticket yet!! And you're still recommending this build to new players? How exactly are they going to go about it when they don't have the very cornerstone of such a build?!? I mean, I suppose you can kiiiinda make do without Nefertem, but then you need multiple Hime to offset that loss, and then you're damage output is even more in the pits.
And your claim that damage reduction doesn't add offense is invalidated by Vigor. Teams with 50+% damage cut can keep Vigor up for a really long time (usually the full battle). That's additional assault/damage that non-damage cuts can't do. Having Cernunnos means she doesn't do as much damage as an SSR, but she does allow all other SSRs in your team to utilize Vigor for far longer than without.
I'm not a Dark player anymore. I never got Anubis (instead got Nidhoggr) and now run Thunder. In Thunder I still run a strong damage cut Hime (Raiko) and as much Vigor/Ascension as I can. I don't pay attention to defender at all. In the above example, without any defender in the grid, we've got 50+% damage cut which is equivalent to 100% defender. Why bother with defender at all at that point. I mean you'll have to have some from sub-par weapons, but I'd gladly trade that in for Vigor/Ascension and the minimum needed Exceed.
Being able to clear difficult content is an important aspect of Kamihime. Utilizing a damage cut team allows you to do that with sub-par grids and eidolons. Once you're able to clear higher content I don't think you actually have to switch the gameplay format to only assault/defense. Adding additional Ascension and Vigor helps that team clear faster. You can technically (with enough Ascension) turn the team into an AAB team. And with Vigor you can turn the team into a faster team. But I don't see any reason to trade Ascension or Vigor for Defense. That doesn't help you 'kill it before it kills you' either. The loss for a decent damage cut team you keep pointing out is at most a Hime and/or Soul choice and 1 maybe 2 Eidolons slots. The durability you gain and the ability to clear very high content at an early stage in a player's career is very valuable. The ability to grow this team past an assault/defender grid based team is also available."With utilizing Idun (free Hime also), there is nothing stopping a Dark player from making a viable team that can clear all content (might need help, but won't be completely useless)." I mean... you're not wrong... but... you can also make viable teams for any content without making a turtling/damage cut team? As soon as a player gets their hands on a full slvl20 SR Grid, they should be strong enough to clear almost all GOs (Jack excluded, but oh boy, a Dark turtling/damage cut team isn't going to do anything to her either). So, shouldn't these players rather go for the typical "kill it before it kills you" builds, which are significantly faster? Or do you have an example of a newer player clearing something like AQ7 especially early due to a build like this?
There is a reason that ascension/vigor is harder to get than defender; they are better weapon grid skills. You do need to create a team to utilize it and so they take more effort and work, but there is a strong payoff from that also. The reason I think most Dark players should run a damage cut team is that it's so readily available to them. They have the easiest chance to get a damage cut team working. You can make that team with two SRs (Idun and Cernunnos) and either Andro or Joan. That is much easier than trying to get a specific SSR, but once you get them you can definitely transition to the better SSRs. Also, I don't believe they are hard/impossible to create for most elements. You do have to run Andro/Joan (and the Kaisers/Dragoons) until you get a damage cut SSR/SR, but that is not unrealistic. They are SR Himes in all elements that start the team. Cernunnos is a different beast in that her skillset is something you'd expect on an SSR.
Dejnov.
Edit: I would trade higher levels of damage cut for faster burst speed, but I would never trade Vigor/Ascension weapons for Defender weapons. As you get better Eidolons and Weapons, it is natural to see if you can move from Andro/Joan to Shingen/Yori. That team isn't an AAB team anymore, but if you needed an AAB team you wouldn't switch from Andro in the first place.Last edited by Dejnov; 05-14-2020 at 02:50 PM.
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Yes. I farmed Vritra so much that when it came out again, I bought everything from the shop and was done with everything instantly. Originally Posted by Jessa
(Except daily Rag farm for Advent Cores.)
And obligatory reminder to leave yourself with FLB materials for any and all weapons that need it. That's easy to forget, and you'll be sorry if you ever need to FLB it later!Maybe in the future Dark's Hime quality will rise, yes. But that's in the future, and not in the now. Especially on Nutaku where Jewel Rate Up is a lie and you cannot get those new Hime until from future Miracle Tickets... yeah, that's not particularly viable. Also, other elements get the very same Hime powercreep, soooo...? Originally Posted by Dejnov
I didn't say that Dark is "unable" to be a strong viable team? Originally Posted by Dejnov
Can Dark clear all content? Yes, just look at Ebisu. This madman probably hosts and clears probably 18 Disaster Rags and 18 Guardians every single day, all with his Dark Ascle team. I don't know if he even bothers to change the lineup.
But is a Dark team - literally any Dark team! - able to race with a meta Thunder or meta Light team? No. There is no hope of that. And as such, in a game that literally ONLY rewards the person who did the most damage, that by default means that Dark sucks, no? Sucking is different from being viable.
Personally, since I don't do selfish teams the whole raid award system is very frustrating, and I can't wait until freaking purple chest update. Give me my share of the loot for healing those selfish teams, thank you very much.And I strongly disagree with your disagreeing. If you don't have the HP to survive a hit, Ascension doesn't do anything for you. If you don't have a healer, Ascension does nothing for you. Originally Posted by Dejnov
The prior can be fixed by damage cuts - this much is true. However, that requires you to manual. Which, hey, power to you if you bother to manual everything just because you literally have to. But you can also just stack the fuck up on HP, and currently no content will really threaten you with a big enough HP pool. That's something that might change with the next tier of raids (I hear something like 6 people in it max?), but for now, there's really no need to go through extra effort for the same effect.Let's see here... Originally Posted by Dejnov
Andromeda 40% 3/6t = 20% Def (nobody runs Andro without her Staff)
Cern = 40% Def (I mean let's just ignore that it takes 20 turns to get there, but fair enough)
60% Def is 37.5% less damage taken indeed.
Cern 30% per 5t = 6% damage cut
Kaiser 30% per 2/8t = 7.5% damage cut (you used SR Kaiser value with SSR Kaiser uptime)
13.5% less damage taken.
Total damage reduction (0.625*0.865) = 0.540625 = 46% less damage taken.
You reached 44% with a fair bit lower values, not exactly sure how you mathed that out. But reminder that you cannot just add up Def and damage cuts - they MUST be multiplied.No. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Heals are not damage cut. Absolutely no. That's not how damage cut works. What you might be calculating is something like survival ability, but this is no longer a matter of "damage cut" anymore at all and this math goes straight into the trash bin.
It does explain your very bloated numbers. I will admit that Cern Def buff is much better than what I thought - as long as we ignore that you need 20 turns to get there. I'd much rather get my 40% Def from Accessories though, and not waste a slot on a SR unless I absolutely had to.I mean, you can, but I reaaaaalllly don't think you should even consider it. I know that dreamlitz went and used 4 separate SSR Kaisers. Which is like... jesus christ, I guess if you really, really, REALLY want to turtle then fine, but... for fucks sake combine those. That's a 3180/885 stat Eidolon split into multiple 1633/445 Eidolons. Which is a truly awful idea for everything except specifically turtling. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Power to him if he actually enjoys that style of play, but geez. Let's not recommend others do the same, okay.There is a difference, and this difference is availability. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Neferfem has been in zero (0) Miracle Tickets.
Cores for other elements have been in multiple, with the exception of Thunder Aphro who has been in one (1).
And, this is assuming that people are willing to spend 50 bucks on a Miracle Ticket, or multiple MTs even. If you don't do that, your chances of obtaining new hotness from the gacha is even worse. Speaking of which, I am extremely jealous of how you apparently just casually have easy access to literally everything, from Thunder Samael to Nefertem.See, here is the problem with this yet again. Originally Posted by Dejnov
How?
How do they have this Vigor?
You always keep ignoring this very, very, VERY vital question. You keep touting how a Cern damage cut team is going to have such AMAAAAZING damage output BECAUSE of Vigor, but you never, ever go into HOW one gets this Vigor. I guess you did say something in the next post, but we'll get there soon enough.The point I've been trying to get across is that this is a paradox. Originally Posted by Dejnov
You're saying that:
#1 one should utilize a damage cut team as a stop-gap until one gets stronger
#2 this team should use Ascension and Vigor to keep up with teams that are stronger
But... you keep ignoring the fact that the availability of #2 is so poor that by the time one MIGHT have this, they're already strong enough that #1 no longer holds true. Because the player has already progressed to the phase where they can just AAB everything with an easily available Assault/Defender Grid.
In fantasy lalaland where one can just snap their fingers and find themselves with a Shingen/Nefertem/Cern team and a Assault/Ascencion/Vigor Grid, yeah, it could work. But in cold, harsh reality, that's just not how it works.? Originally Posted by Dejnov
Yes it does? I mean, just double your HP and you "before it kills you" part is doubled. With 10k base HP, many of my teams run 20k to 25k HP. Because Assault/Defender are just that readily available, particularly for Dark (or rather, were. Sorry new players!).
Meanwhile, doubling the first part ("kill it before") with Vigor is no simple task (if even possible?). And, if you intend to AAB, suddenly you lose all of it - especially if you've dropped Defender, one AoE Overdrive and suddenly you find yourself with a huge portion of your Grid not doing anything. This can, of course, be mitigated by manualing and utilizing damage cuts and heals, but the question is... why should you bother when an easier path exists?
And that is, yet again, my huge beef with Vigor. Is it an amazing stat for some content (read: Skill Checker-kun, Tower)? Yes, yes it is. Is it something you should give two shits about in content that you need to run literally thousands of times? No.I mean, they're not hard to create... ... as long as you entirely ignore the availability of the very crux of every team: the goddamn Grid. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Yet again, how is a player going to build an Assault/Ascension/Vigor Grid that the damage cut team so heavily relies upon? As you've said yourself, one needs Vigor to make up for the loss of damage output from sub-par damage output Hime. And you need Ascension or Vigor will just fail you. So yet again, how? Because it sure as hell isn't this:YEAH, NO. ABSOLUTELY NO. YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Seriously dude, come on. Relying on finding 2-3 Hime weapons of a single specific Hime? Relying to find 3 copies of a single specific Hime that isn't even out yet?!? Are you insane?!? Does the very concept of availability entirely elude you?!?!??! Jesus fucking christ, that seems to be a running theme here.
And on a side note I am very jealous of your Marduk Hammers.
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Thanks for the confirmation, guys, that's nice! And yes, I'm always farm up a bit more of mats for weps' FLBing.
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What are the recommendations for building rainbows teams (for leveling/snatching)?
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It doesn't need to be a rainbow team. Just six Hime with all Accessory slots opened up and 5% Drop+ on each Hime. Which is a lot easier when you make a rainbow. Originally Posted by Jessa
Then just run Solomon(/Medea) and kill everything with just your Soul.
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