Thread: [Explanation] How is the damage calculated.

Attack value = basic value x character attack up(A) x element attack up(B)

Character attack up(A) = 1 + weapon skill attack up + skill character attack buffs + eidolon effect character attack up + eidolon summon effect attack up

Element attack up(B) = 1 + eidolon effect element attack up + skill element buffs + eidolon summon effect element attack up

Comments:
To get the max output, you should consider to buff both factors A and B equally.
For A: It's easy to have 100%+ for character attack up through weapon skills. For example 10 SR assault weapons with lv8 weapon skill each will give you 70% attack up in total.
For B: Eidolon effect is the only source which gives you a permanent bonus.

For example:
1. You have no assault weapon equipped.
Eidolon (Ifrit) gives 50% character attack up
AxB = (1+0.5) x 1 = 1.5 ---> 50% boost
Fafnir gives 40% element attack up
AxB = 1 x (1+0.4) = 1.4 ---> 40% boost
In this case, you can take the figure like it is.

2. You have 70% boost through weapons.
AxB = (1+0.7+0.5) x 1 = 2.2 ---> 220% basic attack with Ifrit
AxB = (1+0.7) x (1+0.4) = 1.7 x 1.4 =2.38 ---> 238% basic attack with Fafnir.

Result:
By only 70% attack up through weapons, Fafnir gives you 18% more damage boost than Ifrit, even the base attack up number is smaller (40% to 50%). We only consider the first value to show the difference between character attack up and element attack up, the second value 20% burst damage by Ifrit is not considered.
For Attack, Eidolon with element attack up is far superior to those with character attack up, unless you still need some HP boost too.

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Debuff - Defense down.
A simple way to increase your damage output is debuffing. The most attack up buffs based on skills are summational to character attack up (Factor A). The more boost you get through your weapons skills, the less effective the attack-up buffs are.
Debuff defense down is not affected by any other factors. The increase is fixed.

The formula

Damage output = Attack Value / (1- Defense down value)

That means,
10% Defense down = 1.11 x attack
20% Defense down = 1.25
30% Defense down = 1.42
40% Defense down = 1.66
50% Defense down = 2

With 50% (max. limit) defense down on boss you (when raid your whole team) have doubled the damage output or with other word you have 100% increase of your own attack value, no matter how many boost you get from your equipments.


At the Endgame you will aim for the max. debuff down as possible. Debuffs with different frames are stackable, so you can reach the maximum of 50%
The are 3 types of frames (A, B and C)
A: Single debuff
B: Attack and defense down
C: Special

The only kamihime with C frame Defense down are Cthulhu and thanatos (not released yet, Cthulhu is coming, Thanatos maybe more than 1 year)

Attack down is useful for your survival. Max. 50% damage cut is a lot. There was no limit for attack down in the past, until it got fixed.

With the time you will max your weapons, then some kamihime will make the difference.

The essential SSR kamihime, which are available now, are Dark Amon, Light Sol and Fire Amaterasu. All three are good debuffers, fitting in every kind of teams as Sub. Sol gives heal, Amon gives more control in boss fight and Amaterasu can everything (healing,buffing and debuffing).

Light has Sol, Sol solves.

Dark lacks a healer. First one will be Osiris. End of 2017 maybe. In any other aspect Dark is strong.

Fire has Amaterasu and strong damage dealers. Fire Eidolons provide also more attack buffs than others. Also SR like brynhildr is better than some SSRs.

Water type has Cthulhu and dragon king later. Water has strong debuffers, strong healers (SSR Nike / Aphrodite) and broken damage dealer such as Shiva. The playstyle may be boring on long-term.

Thunder is burst dmg focused, good for MVP stealing, but not really good for Endgame content at ragnarok level. You will need special SSR such as Caocao Hualin, which cannot be bought with the "choose the SSR you want" ticket.

Wind will become good with Gaia(Awakening) and some new SSR, before that wind is "just for fun".

With the release of 100% (max 125%) element attack up Eidolon (Belial, Kirin etc) the balance is totally broken... If you got one, you really don't need any good SSR to be good... Many players with fully optimized SSR team had quit the game, just because they didn't have the luck getting one of those broken eidolon spending tons of money and got beaten in damage by those with crap setup but op eidolon.
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Sorry for my bad english and existing grammar errors.

Thank you for taking the time to write this. I always wanted to test how the damage is calculated since i noticed that DEF debuff is better than ATT buff but didn't know the reason.

Noted that i have a fire team with Amaterasu i also have Gabriel to stack up two DEF debuffs, do you happen to know what are the percent values of those debuffs?

Amaterasu
-DEF debuff+(A) = -%?
-DEF debuff++(A) = -%?

Gabriel:
-DEF debuff+(B) = -%?
-DEF debuff++(B) = -%?

Originally Posted by Era

Thank you for taking the time to write this. I always wanted to test how the damage is calculated since i noticed that DEF debuff is better than ATT buff but didn't know the reason.

Noted that i have a fire team with Amaterasu i also have Gabriel to stack up two DEF debuffs, do you happen to know what are the percent values of those debuffs?

Amaterasu
-DEF debuff+(A) = -%?
-DEF debuff++(A) = -%?

Gabriel:
-DEF debuff+(B) = -%?
-DEF debuff++(B) = -%?

Amaterasu has 20% defense down (Frame B)
Gabriel has 12% defense down (Frame A)
32% defense down in total.

About 47% more true damage, but don't forget type advantages, because you mix water/fire.

Great post, that answers lots of questions

Originally Posted by fucka

Amaterasu has 20% defense down (Frame B)
Gabriel has 12% defense down (Frame A)
32% defense down in total.

About 47% more true damage, but don't forget type advantages, because you mix water/fire.

Thanks. And pardon my confusion on frames, also i never understood what does the powered up version do(when you limit break twice)? I thought it increases the percent.

My fire team is still far from taking advantage of the element since i lack SR brynhildr or Agni (Amaterasu,Ares, Susanoo, Amon/Gabriel is what im using).

Since this reasoning is valid on the reverse also it means DEF buff is better than ATT debuff? Therefore for a Fire team Andromeda equipped with Gawain's DEF debuff (-20% ?) seems the optimal choice for survival and damage until you draw SR Brynhildr.


What about Ability Damage, is it influenced by the DEF debuff?

i got two teams as below
1st team (all jewels used)
Dark Amon
Beelze
Tsuki
Amaterasu

2nd team (saved 22k jewels at the moment)
Satan
Dark Amon
Beelze
random for now, saving jewels for Hades(heard she's a keeper)

and here's my question.... should i continue to main 2nd team? 1st team got Amaterasu...

Originally Posted by Era

Thanks. And pardon my confusion on frames, also i never understood what does the powered up version do(when you limit break twice)? I thought it increases the percent.

My fire team is still far from taking advantage of the element since i lack SR brynhildr or Agni (Amaterasu,Ares, Susanoo, Amon/Gabriel is what im using).

Since this reasoning is valid on the reverse also it means DEF buff is better than ATT debuff? Therefore for a Fire team Andromeda equipped with Gawain's DEF debuff (-20% ?) seems the optimal choice for survival and damage until you draw SR Brynhildr.


What about Ability Damage, is it influenced by the DEF debuff?

Debuff > Buff
Reason 1: Debuff is based on time (180 sec) and buff is based on turns, usually max. 3T.
Reason 2: Debuff has no diminishing return. The boost through buffs gets less once you have skilled up your assault weapons.


Ability damage up is summational to its own multiplier. For example your ability deals 4.5x damage, and you have 30% ability up. In total you have 4.8x damage. And the damage is calculated in the description above.
The total damage output you are dealing divided by (1-defense down) is the final damage.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by dreadpin

i got two teams as below
1st team (all jewels used)
Dark Amon
Beelze
Tsuki
Amaterasu

2nd team (saved 22k jewels at the moment)
Satan
Dark Amon
Beelze
random for now, saving jewels for Hades(heard she's a keeper)

and here's my question.... should i continue to main 2nd team? 1st team got Amaterasu...

Imo the team 1 is much better. Satan is the weaker version of the dark amon, you just need one for you team. Dark team lacks healing, so ama can heal a bit even not so much.
With Dark Amon and Ama you can get 45% defense down and 20% attack down on boss. And beelze's rage gives your incredible damage boost too.
Ama is far superior to satan. If you want to build a fire team somehow, ama is must-have too.

22K, thats a lot jewels.... but whether you get the SSR you want, it's a different story.

I would keep 1st acc as main and 2nd as raid twink.

Hades fits best in your first team, if you can manage to get her...then you will have 40% attack down and 45% defense down on boss, then attack boost from beelze and heal + defense up +blind from ama and hades and boss ragemode killer/Damage dealer Amon... ... Satan? No space for her.

This team is almost optimal, except some type disadvantage of fire and the weapon skill buffs, if you use dark weapons + eidolon only.
In the future, you could replace fire ama with dark ama, who has almost the same skills and debuffs.
And maybe thanatos replacing beelze, which provides C frame defense down, so u can reach 50% defense down max. On the other hand you will lose the rage buff from beelze.

I have the main damage modifiers implemented in my spreadsheet. That resource has been available to everyone for a while now. It's interesting to see opinions on the overall strengths of each element though.

As great as stat down debuffs are, most people are factoring in that it has a 100% affliction rate, which they do not. I'm not sure if we'll see any future event bosses that have high affliction resistance such as the wind disaster raid boss but if that ever becomes the case, it would be questionable to choose that over a buff (if you didn't have the option to choose both) and even so, they still miss on a regular basis even on these current/past bosses. So while the gain from using it is much greater when calculated, don't forget the loss from it from missing is just as much of a factor.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

As great as stat down debuffs are, most people are factoring in that it has a 100% affliction rate, which they do not. I'm not sure if we'll see any future event bosses that have high affliction resistance such as the wind disaster raid boss but if that ever becomes the case, it would be questionable to choose that over a buff (if you didn't have the option to choose both) and even so, they still miss on a regular basis even on these current/past bosses. So while the gain from using it is much greater when calculated, don't forget the loss from it from missing is just as much of a factor.

Debuffs are generally stronger AND they last longer. If you factor in the miss rate then the uptime is maybe the same (but you can keep recasting, even when it lands!), but they're still stronger. For example, defense -50% is much, much stronger than ATK +50% (more than a 2-fold difference), even if the uptime were the same.