Thread: What Soul to Unlock?

Originally Posted by felix

P.P.S would still like to see video of DMM players using Solomon on any of the "end game" content, like accessory farming or ragnarok solo. If you have a link, that would be appreciated XD

You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

that would entertain me, and thats what matters

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Let me rephrase my current understanding of this to avoid propagating more speculation: I see no evidence that assist abilities affect the entire team (DMM or Nutaku version). That is not evidence that they DON'T. 8% is such a small buff, and the random modifiers on ability damage are so large (not to mention all the potential confounding variables), that reliably spotting such a small effect statistically is actually pretty difficult and would require some dedicated data collection. I'm not so interested in this that I'd leap to do such a study--not when the only basis for an effect is hearsay.

It's sort of like one person saying, "5 Stacks or more of Snatch decrease damage dealt by mobs by 1%!" There's no basis for such a claim, but I can't disprove it without an inordinate amount of effort. Does that mean we should believe it? No!

Generally Assist skills buff the whole group. In case of rosenkreuz/solomon, they only buff themselves.

The main damage ability of solomon is solomonring. It does only 0.80-0.85x dmg each hit. This small multiplier seems to be weak at early-mid game, but benefits strongly from ability up in the late-game, once people have significant boost from attk up and element up.

Damage increase on paper
solomonring: 8% / 0.80 = 10%
an ability with damage multiplier 5x, 8% / 5 = 1.6%


For comparison, what does 20% attk up buff means, if +100% attk up and +80% element up are reached? (max. possible 160% and 200%+ atm)

weapon x element x ability x hits
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x 0.80 x 6 = 17.28 ( solomon ring no other buff)
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x 5 x 1 = 18 (shiva's single nuke no other buff, higher than solomonring )

20% attk up buff:
(1+100%+20%) x (1+80%) x 0.80 x 6 = 19.008 ---> about 10% real increase (solomon ring)
(1+100%+20%) x (1+80%) x 5 = 19.8 ---> about 10% real increase (shiva's nuke)

8% ability up
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x (0.80+8%) x 6 = 19.008 ---> about 10% real increase too, wonder?!
Solomonring gains 10% real damage increase with only 8% ability up, and that 8% is equal to 20% attk up buff. (big buff of Arthur for instance)

but what about a standard 1hit ability?
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x (5+8%) = 18.288 ---> only 1.6% real increase to non-buff state...

A strong single hit ability benefits less from that 8% ability up. 5x damage is almost best for this kind of ability, but it gets topped by solomonring with only 8% ability up. 18.288 < 19.008.

The math doesn't consider type advantages. Solomonring has all elements, only 1 of 6 hits can hit weakness. in case of type advantage, single element is still better.
The math only shows, how good ability up is scaled with abilities such as solomonring in endgame.




This game is balanced in Endgame content. The devs know, what they do.

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Originally Posted by sanahtlig

You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

and I think you and felix are smart enough to understand the simple math , hm, felix, maybe not...
If you think anything is illogical, I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by fucka

don' act like 3 years old. This is a game for adult.

Originally Posted by fucka

smart enough to understand the simple math , hm, felix, maybe not...

hm, irony much?

Originally Posted by felix

hm, irony much?

Oh, I'm sorry, Irony off.

I really believe, you have stolen your daddy's credit card and ID for playing game like this.
Irony on, again.

Originally Posted by fucka

I really believe, you have stolen your daddy's credit card and ID for playing game like this.

Ooooh, it burns sooo goood...
You gonna add some steam? I prefer saunas.

Originally Posted by felix

Ooooh, it burns sooo goood...
You gonna add some steam? I prefer saunas.

What about return to school and learn a bit low-class math, so you could understand post #33 at least, then we keep talking? Or are you brain damaged by too "much" steam?

Originally Posted by fucka

What about return to school and learn a bit low-class math, so you could understand post #33 at least, then we keep talking? Or are you brain damaged by too "much" steam?

how about you point at evidence of me not understanding post #33? To my knowledge, I haven't wrote anything to argue with your calculations... Are you having hallucinations? Go see a doctor maybe?

Originally Posted by felix

how about you point at evidence of me not understanding post #33? To my knowledge, I haven't wrote anything to argue with your calculations... Are you having hallucinations? Go see a doctor maybe?

That's a little math to show, how "shit" solomon's skills are, just like you stated, but math isn't really your strength. Why are you wasting your time for this kind of discussion anyway?
Go and hallucinate some boobs, in this case, you won't need a doctor for your problem.

Originally Posted by fucka

Generally Assist skills buff the whole group. In case of rosenkreuz/solomon, they only buff themselves.

*Long lecture about Solomon's Ring*

I don't actually care all that much about Solomon's Ring, though the explanation about how ability damage modifiers affect skills with damage multipliers was useful. As usual, the game mechanics are needlessly unintuitive, and it's left to players to figure out how they actually work. But my takeaway from this isn't that ability up modifiers are good--it's that other modifiers scale terribly. In the end, a good modifier becoming less good over time doesn't make a bad modifier good. It's still bad; it's just that the alternatives are now worse. But I've also been saying for a while now that temporary character attack buffs are overrated.

But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?