Thread: [Event 12] Apocalypse & Phoenix Rematch

Originally Posted by Aidoru

Element Atk =/= Character Element Atk.

Damage formula
( 1 + a + b ) * ( 1 + c ) = x
a = character type boost from eidolons
b = boost from weapon skills
c = element type boost from eidolons

Let's pretend you have 100% damage boost from your weapons.

With 40% character boost (Crom)
(1 + .4 + 1) * (1 + 0)
2.4 * 1 = 2.4
240% damage

With 40% element boost (Apocalypse)
(1 + 0 + 1) * (1 + .4)
2 * 1.4 = 2.8
280% damage

You loss 40% damage using Crom over Apocalypse and that value only gets wider the more you level your weapon skill.

Many thanks.
I thought the whole "element character atk" and "character atk" are simply one and the same since that kind of misconception has never been cleared up once anywhere in the game. So basically what I can take from this is Element ATK is ALWAYS better than Character ATK because even without any ATK boost from the weapon grid, both values are on equal ground yes?

Originally Posted by Inb4whales

Many thanks.
I thought the whole "element character atk" and "character atk" are simply one and the same since that kind of misconception has never been cleared up once anywhere in the game. So basically what I can take from this is Element ATK is ALWAYS better than Character ATK because even without any ATK boost from the weapon grid, both values are on equal ground yes?

No, character attack is better in some circumstances. See my calculator.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

There shouldn't be any dividing in the formula unless there's more too it. It was more or less a copy of the formula made in a different topic.

It wasn't your damage formula calcuation that was wrong. It was your interpretation of it. You claimed a 40% damage loss, but didn't do the extra calculation necessary to show that (a percent difference calculation). As a result, you arrived at a misleading conclusion.

well, finally i can auto-farm ultimate. good event

Best Win.

So has a fairly new player, I gathered from this thread that i should focus myself on the eidolon first.
But isn't focusing on the SSR weapon first be better ?

Mainly for the fact that you need 10 weapons and only 6 eidolons, plus you have even more diversity to worry about with the weapon type & element as opposed to just the element for the eidolon.

Lastly it's cheaper to MLB weapon rather than eidolon, considering that I have to do both event at the same time, that's also quite important.

Am I wrong ?

Originally Posted by Fikari

So has a fairly new player, I gathered from this thread that i should focus myself on the eidolon first.
But isn't focusing on the SSR weapon first be better ?

Mainly for the fact that you need 10 weapons and only 6 eidolons, plus you have even more diversity to worry about with the weapon type & element as opposed to just the element for the eidolon.

Lastly it's cheaper to MLB weapon rather than eidolon, considering that I have to do both event at the same time, that's also quite important.

Am I wrong ?

You're kinda wrong. So the thing about that is that your end goal should be to have 6 SSR eidolons that are MBL. Only ONE of those actually contributes it's passive, so having a bunch of different element SSRs is good, as they all contribute their stats, and you have options for diffferent teams.

Weapons, however, you want a full sheet of weapons for one element. I don't know how far you've progressed, but say, if you're a Fire main type - as in your weapon grid is full of fire weapons... well in that case all these dark and light weapons are totally useless to you. Most people recommend grabbing 1 copy of each SSR to act as your 'mainhand' weapon, because it determines your burst strength.

So if you're a fire player... all these weapons, SR and SSR included, are useless. But those two Eidolons, when maxed, will still be on your team all the way through endgame. Of course, it's a different story if your main element is light or dark.

Apocalypse, Phoenix, and Garuda are valuable because with only 3 eidolons you can cover all 6 elements with a versatile passive that will remain useful at endgame. That's why they're prioritized. You might have a water team now, but at some point you could end up pulling 3 SSRs from another element. When that happens, you want an eidolon to use with them.

And as I keep repeating, Blind is a really good debuff. Most people will want Apocalypse in their main team as a secondary eidolon, and if she isn't maxed you'll suffer a stat penalty for the privilege of using that debuff.

Ok, so tl;dr Phoenix and Apoc aren't easily replaceable but the weapon are.

I should be able to MLB them both with some hard grind, cause i'm guessing this is my last chance ever to get them, right ?

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

No, character attack is better in some circumstances. See my calculator.


It wasn't your damage formula calcuation that was wrong. It was your interpretation of it. You claimed a 40% damage loss, but didn't do the extra calculation necessary to show that (a percent difference calculation). As a result, you arrived at a misleading conclusion.

Maybe I'm just math illiterate and going full retard but can you elaborate more?

To my understanding, the end results are a multiplier. For example, my previous example, a 2.4x multiplier and a 2.8x multiplier with the difference being .4, that being the 40%.

In maths, we call percentage difference or relative difference the ratio between the difference of the reference value and observed value, divided by the reference value.

Which give you :

relative difference = (x - xref) / xref

In this case (2.8 - 2.4)/2.8 = 0.4/2.8 = 0.14

Relative difference is an unitless indicator that takes into account the size of the value. For example if we considered now that the buff value weren't a 2.4 and 2.8 multiplier but a 222.4 and 222.8 multiplier, would you still call that a 40 % loss ?
Even if your maths would still give you the same result you clearly see that in this case the loss is negligible (0.18 % loss to be precise).