Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

About HP rarely people using defender esp the monogrid. Usually monogrid people are anti using defender thats why they have very low hp and Sr defender hp dont help much. You can argue about it but it will yield no conclusion or answer as both answer is a perception, assumption not actually real facts.

When we say 'rainbow', to what degree of 'rainbow' are we referring to?
Are we talking about compositions where the eidolon you want for the passive is a dual-element (Apocalypse/Phoenix/Fafnir/etc.)?
Or we're talking about a team where one of the standard elemental lilim looks good?
Or a team where the illusion/phantom lilim is the choice? (when you have/want no more than 2 kamihime of any given element)

Originally Posted by TNinja

Actually i see more people around that using rainbow

Yes, but people being bad is hardly anything new. The amount of times I've had to argue with people about character vs. elemental attack is astounding...

Originally Posted by TNinja

-- more succesful to clear ragna quicker--

Yeeeaaaah... right. No.

Around the time that you can clear Ultimate is around the time you start to have the resources to run monogrids. When you're able to run Ragnaroks, you should already be running monogrids, because even weak monogrids will stomp rainbows quickly.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

Rainbow grid is also a way to do things: the lazy way.

It's not though. With a rainbow grid strategy, you need to do all the events to farm all the SSRs for every element. Meanwhile the mono-grid player can farm a single element and not miss much. Elemental weakness isn't much of an issue since a mono-grid player doesn't really need much from any element other than their own anyway. Also, a maxed mono-grid team can clear Ultimates of their elemental weakness if needed; it's just Ragnaroks that are the problem. Yet clearing the extra 1/6 of Ragnaroks doesn't provide much benefit either, so that can be skipped too. Same with Ragnarok Disasters and Accessory Quests.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

It's not though. With a rainbow grid strategy, you need to do all the events to farm all the SSRs for every element. Meanwhile the mono-grid player can farm a single element and not miss much. Elemental weakness isn't much of an issue since a mono-grid player doesn't really need much from any element other than their own anyway. Also, a maxed mono-grid team can clear Ultimates of their elemental weakness if needed; it's just Ragnaroks that are the problem. Yet clearing the extra 1/6 of Ragnaroks doesn't provide much benefit either, so that can be skipped too. Same with Ragnarok Disasters and Accessory Quests.

I see where you're coming from, but are we really going to use players that don't have much time to log in & grind events as an example? Coz I doubt most of those players would bother looking at guides and take their time deciding which is the best for them. But if we are talking about that case, you're right. You can just disregard that single element you're weak against. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That said, there are players who can actively participate in most events and want to clear them. And clearing doesn't only mean taking the rewards, but completely overcoming the challenges. And to those players, building a rainbow grid shouldn't be much of a problem while they don't have to bother with filling their grids with SR weapons. And they would also slowly, but surely become better & better with each element which has its own benefits.

And once again, I'm also using monogrid team, but if you argue against rainbow, I can't help, but argue for rainbow grid as that's also a pretty well working option.

Despite knowing of monogrids and their advantages, I ran rainbow grid in the past up until I could auto ultimate somewhat reliably, worst case scenario with auto(no skill) the first 2 waves. Though Typhoon's massive burst gave me troubles and I had to manual that one. 40k overall attack with a rainbow-grid, but mono-element team, is still somewhat decent. From that point on, started building all my elemental grids with event weapons, farming almost none of the raid weapons (I have like 7 or so MLB-ed raid weps split in all 6 elements). At this point I'm starting to finish-up my monogrids in terms of weapons, though all SL are around 11 or so since above that is expensive af and I decided I need to save gems for accessory quests from the moment I heard of it, which was close to very beginning.

My personal plans now are just getting the most out of everything I can and improving all my grids somewhat consistently. Though I don't much about what is to come, I've been managing to keep up with the highest difficulty for a couple months so it works out for me so far, though the reason for this might be because I'm running free and have 2 gacha SSRs (with a recent addition of just a weapon) despite my 6 months of playing.

I'd say that rainbow grids were fine for the beginning but monogrids are definitely better later. But with the upcoming accessory quests which add a whole new difficulty level, it might take too new players too long to reach the strength where they can defeat ragnarok difficulty of any element, though I don't know how accessories will factor in.

My experience should be taken with a grain of salt as I was capable of investing the time to make this work. To give you a rough estimate - I started 2 days before crom cruach, with 4-5 lucky drops I got a L85 eido and MLB weapon. Got Ixion to L70 and 1* wep with no drops, apocalypse and phoenix to L40 with 0* or 1* weps. From Quetzatcoatl on, with her included, I MLBed every SSR there was to MLB except Yggdrasil.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

I see where you're coming from, but are we really going to use players that don't have much time to log in & grind events as an example?

If there's one strategy that is simpler, more efficient, and better or equal to the alternative in all scenarios, there's no reason to discuss the alternative in a guide. New players are overwhelmed as it is; no need to add to their learning curve. That is, unless you can convince me that the rainbow grid strategy is at least situationally superior.

This discussion can be summarized into the following question: Is it worth investing in SR weapons?

We can begin to answer this question by answering the following:
At what skill level is a same-element SR assault weapon superior to an off-element SSR (both max-level)?

Mono-grid players will also be interested in:
At what limit break tier / skill level is a same-element SR assault weapon superior to a maxed off-element SR?

Focusing your research on answering questions of general interest, rather than explaining methodological details, will make your analyses more relevant to other users. It'd be different if your methodology was novel and better than current alternatives, but it's not (as far as I can tell). I created and published my tools so others could answer questions like this in a verifiable manner, without having to start from scratch every time.

with same resource invested, rainbow team is always inferior. even if you have 0 assault power weapon grid, you still have eidelon bonus. no need to say the more developed your weapon grid is, the larger the gap becomes. unless there are super rare abilities (like Gaia, sol, cthulu, raiko), there is no point using off element himes at all. rainbow weapon grid is even a more worthless idea, you have to use it when you are start playing(not many choices), but that's all. as an infant you might risk fall down, but you eventually have to learn how to walk right?

Thank you guys for the responses. I will make this my last post on the matter, coz we seem to be running circles.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

If there's one strategy that is simpler, more efficient, and better or equal to the alternative in all scenarios, there's no reason to discuss the alternative in a guide. New players are overwhelmed as it is; no need to add to their learning curve. That is, unless you can convince me that the rainbow grid strategy is at least situationally superior.

You have a point on that new players are being overwhelmed with information and a guide is more of a thing that should tell a new player what to do in order to get stronger. But this isn't a guide. Like I pointed it out before, this is supposed to be an analysis with actual data on the matter, not a general answer. I started investigating the case being like "Yeah, I know monogrid is the better option.", but I actually want to see & calculate it on my own. And I was pretty surprised when the values showed that the rainbow grid is actually a pretty decent option, even if it's not the best. Most players around me were dissing it as something completely worthless or at the very least not an option worth consideration. And here I ended up with values showing that's not by a long the case.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

This discussion can be summarized into the following question: Is it worth investing in SR weapons?

We can begin to answer this question by answering the following:
At what skill level is a same-element SR assault weapon superior to an off-element SSR (both max-level)?

Mono-grid players will also be interested in:
At what limit break tier / skill level is a same-element SR assault weapon superior to a maxed off-element SR?

Focusing your research on answering questions of general interest, rather than explaining methodological details, will make your analyses more relevant to other users. It'd be different if your methodology was novel and better than current alternatives, but it's not (as far as I can tell). I created and published my tools so others could answer questions like this in a verifiable manner, without having to start from scratch every time.

And this is exactly why I linked your tool at the end of the post (after Slashley pointed out). I just presented a comparison from A to Z on the matter rather than just giving a calculator that does everything for you.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

with same resource invested, rainbow team is always inferior. even if you have 0 assault power weapon grid, you still have eidelon bonus. no need to say the more developed your weapon grid is, the larger the gap becomes. unless there are super rare abilities (like Gaia, sol, cthulu, raiko), there is no point using off element himes at all.

There was no mention on the thread about rainbow team, so I don't see your point mentioning it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

rainbow weapon grid is even a more worthless idea, you have to use it when you are start playing(not many choices), but that's all. as an infant you might risk fall down, but you eventually have to learn how to walk right?

As far as this calculation goes, rainbow weapon grid isn't worthless. That was one of my points posting my results on this comparison. I mentioned in the answer to Sanahtlig, but exactly because most people were dissing rainbow grid like that, I was surprised myself with the results I got and hence I shared it. If I got the data I was expecting I would have just nod and say "Yes, I was expecting something along those lines." and never bother posting it.

Huh, all this time of mono vs rainbow grid, I was thinking in terms of kamihime compositions. I only just now noticed that you were talking about weapon grids the entire time.

Why is the example using a mono element with ~3/8th of the investment of the full ssr grid?