Thread: About DMM game closures on nutaku and opinions on kamihime's situation

Originally Posted by Ramazan

Also, blaxyz hinted us that there's an upcoming tower defence game thats still in development which will be announced in upcoming weeks. Well, aint no game gonna replace aigis for me for sure XD aigis is the longest game i've played so far, still that sounded promising.

I've come here to see myself being right once again.

It wasn't really "in the upcoming weeks"

I got burned by aigis for a few hundred bucks. If Nutaku closed, it would be thousands. Why didn't I learn my lesson? Compulsive behaviour, addiction perhaps. I know it isn't rational, but sometimes I just can't resist the impulse to do a gatcha pull, even though I know I'm wasting my money.

My main problem with Aigis wasn't that they ended the game, but the lack of compensation for it. I stopped playing before the game ended, but came back for this game and asked about compensation for my old Aigis account. I didn't even get a reply.

The thing is,when we pay money for a gatch, the contents are our virtual property. Nutaku may try to disclaim this in their T&C, and say that we are buying "the right to use" the contents for an indefinite period of time. The problem with their argument is that an agreement is only lawful to the extent that both sides give something of value. The right to use something for as long as Nutaku decides to let us probably wouldn't meet that standard. Instead, the gatcha contents would probably be viewed as the virtual property of the gamer.

Nutaku is, in essence looking after our property for us. The legal term for this is a bailment, and Nutaku, as the bailor, owes its customers a duty of care to maintain their property. If they don't, they owe us. Again, Nutaku surely disclaims this in their T&C, but again, attempts to lcontractually imit the duty of bailment are often held to be invalid. Lots has been written about this, and I'm not writing a research paper here, so I really can't say whether Nutaku's limitations would hold up or not, but I would guess not in most jurisdictions that use UK/US common law.

In other words, they should give compensation for depriving us of the use of the property we entrusted them with. Not 100% of the value; since we got to use the virtual goods for some time, they depreciated, and the longer we had them the less they owe. It's hard to figure out the depreciation of virtual goods since the integrity of the product doesn't diminish over time the way it does with physical goods. Still, the fact that we were able to use the goods meant we got some value from them, so we can't expect to be compensated in full. I would think the best way to determine it would be by using some sort of "fair value" test. How long does it take for the owner of a virtual good to get full value for their money? I'm just pulling this number out of the air, but depreciation of around $1 per month sounds reasonable to me.

Originally Posted by tommyboy

The thing is,when we pay money for a gatch, the contents are our virtual property. Nutaku may try to disclaim this in their T&C, and say that we are buying "the right to use" the contents for an indefinite period of time. The problem with their argument is that an agreement is only lawful to the extent that both sides give something of value. The right to use something for as long as Nutaku decides to let us probably wouldn't meet that standard. Instead, the gatcha contents would probably be viewed as the virtual property of the gamer.

Do you have anything which support this claim? Because paying for something doesn't mean there is a transfert of property.

Originally Posted by Keyen

Do you have anything which support this claim? Because paying for something doesn't mean there is a transfert of property.

When you pay for something, it's either property or services. I can't conceive of a gatcha pull being a service, so it's property.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When you pay for something, it's either property or services. I can't conceive of a gatcha pull being a service, so it's property.

This is a fucking G A M E, you H A V E F U N when P L A Y I N G G A M E

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When you pay for something, it's either property or services. I can't conceive of a gatcha pull being a service, so it's property.

Other way around; this sort of thing is offered as a service as opposed to a product.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_as_a_service

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When you pay for something, it's either property or services. I can't conceive of a gatcha pull being a service, so it's property.

Except that more or less anything related to games on online platforms (like steam, origins, etc) is made to be a service, not a property. You don't own your games on steam, and you don't own your characters on KH.