On persistent social toxicity in this forum

[Kotono]

Hey guys, sorry about not being able to really keep up with everything that goes on. I've always had to simply rely on being informed by others when a problem arises. This is not the only site I have to run, either. So of course attention gets divided quite a bit, including with my other activities as well.

That said, unregistered posting was something I decided to allow on a temporary basis - until it started becoming abused. It sounds to me like it may be time for it to be turned off, and now it is - for Kamihime forum.

Also, should anyone like to volunteer to moderate KH discussions, then please feel free to send me a message to request for it. It is always better for someone with more of an understanding of what is happening to moderate rather than myself who just enters when looking for someone causing trouble.

I hear HBC forum has a bad rep, and that's very unfortunate. This is something I'd like to correct.

Discussions are all well and good. Disagreements are fine, as they are unavoidable. Arguments can and will start as a result. However, as soon as it escalates to insults, the discussion should be over and offenders dealt with. Do NOT retaliate with more insults.

[Unregistered user]

So, technically, a few registered ones start a fight in this forum and the ones that get punished are the unregistered... That's quite interesting. And no, I'm not a second account to troll, was an unregistered a few minutes ago because I dont think you have to identify yourself to ask something, read the forum or even say an opinion without log in everytime.

[MagicSpice]

honestly, i just think that egos need to be let go.....

mistakes are made at times (i even did a video with the wrong info recently and had to clarify in the comments about the mistake). it comes down to owning up to mistakes and others not trying to act like one mistake is the end of the world...

this is honestly the same thing i see on Elsword's forums and chats all the time, but nowhere near the toxicity.... and i'm sure there's still worse than that....


plus when it comes to giving advice on this game, it's just that.... advice... biggest thing that's overlooked is that while some things clearly can be best in slot or most valued character, not everyone has those things....

i honestly feel like that when advice is given, multiple options need to be suggested too. for instance, so many talk about Amaterasu being a great fire healer, but I don't have her... I do have Brynhildr though... and in another player's case, they may not have either one....

it's more so that not much thinking ahead was really done and that's part of why some advice might have been misunderstood. but egos really do need to be let go at some point. it's great and all if you can solo something like wind disaster in 5 mins or less, but the real objective is just being able to clear it, not destroy it as if it was a daily quest....

[nonsensei]

I think MagicSpice got the gist of the problem. We have many players with various kind of spending habits. You can't simply make guides/suggestions in general because the world of a free-to-play player and someone who spends only for SSR stuff is already so different. And then I haven't considered the bigger whales, and the even higher, or the luck factor, or time on hand to grind stuff, etc., etc. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that making a guide is pointless or giving advice is impossible, just that with these different positions, we are bound to have different opinions. And you can't just simply gloss it over with "They're whales, their opinion doesn't matter." (excuse me for oversimplifying it).

[Shieun]

Asking a spending players to understand how f2p world looked like is not going to be easy too, and vice versa.

Both sides could do with not dismissing each other opinion because both have to make use of what they have. Spending players would have easier time as they would probably have a larger hime pool to base their solution on.

[sanahtlig]

Hey guys, sorry about not being able to really keep up with everything that goes on. I've always had to simply rely on being informed by others when a problem arises. This is not the only site I have to run, either. So of course attention gets divided quite a bit, including with my other activities as well.

That said, unregistered posting was something I decided to allow on a temporary basis - until it started becoming abused. It sounds to me like it may be time for it to be turned off, and now it is - for Kamihime forum.

Also, should anyone like to volunteer to moderate KH discussions, then please feel free to send me a message to request for it. It is always better for someone with more of an understanding of what is happening to moderate rather than myself who just enters when looking for someone causing trouble.

I hear HBC forum has a bad rep, and that's very unfortunate. This is something I'd like to correct.

Discussions are all well and good. Disagreements are fine, as they are unavoidable. Arguments can and will start as a result. However, as soon as it escalates to insults, the discussion should be over and offenders dealt with. Do NOT retaliate with more insults.

Thank you for the prompt response. Now that we know we have administrative support, we can start looking at the reforms required to tackle this issue. My greatest worry was that we could discuss this all day, but without the power to implement any structural changes, we'd be powerless to do anything except ask people to 'play nice'. Which is usually little more than a temporary band-aid.

So, technically, a few registered ones start a fight in this forum and the ones that get punished are the unregistered... That's quite interesting. And no, I'm not a second account to troll, was an unregistered a few minutes ago because I dont think you have to identify yourself to ask something, read the forum or even say an opinion without log in everytime.

No one is being punished. An unregistered user can become a registered user in under 5min. It's just a little less convenient for people who want to post once or twice and move on, rather than become part of the community. And that's a plus because we want to motivate people to become invested in the community, rather than simply come here to exchange ideas.

(paraphrased) The internet is a toxic place. And there's nothing to be done about it.

I disagree. Something has been done about it. And I hope we continue to strive to make this a place where everyone can be comfortable sharing their ideas--even controversial ones--without being persecuted. We can't control what people do off this site, but we can at least strive to make this a place for friendly discussion--and yes--disagreements. Every disagreement doesn't need to be two sides trying to discredit the other by any means necessary.

[Laventale]

Hey guys, sorry about not being able to really keep up with everything that goes on. I've always had to simply rely on being informed by others when a problem arises. This is not the only site I have to run, either. So of course attention gets divided quite a bit, including with my other activities as well.

That said, unregistered posting was something I decided to allow on a temporary basis - until it started becoming abused. It sounds to me like it may be time for it to be turned off, and now it is - for Kamihime forum.

Also, should anyone like to volunteer to moderate KH discussions, then please feel free to send me a message to request for it. It is always better for someone with more of an understanding of what is happening to moderate rather than myself who just enters when looking for someone causing trouble.

I hear HBC forum has a bad rep, and that's very unfortunate. This is something I'd like to correct.

Discussions are all well and good. Disagreements are fine, as they are unavoidable. Arguments can and will start as a result. However, as soon as it escalates to insults, the discussion should be over and offenders dealt with. Do NOT retaliate with more insults.

I'm always online, I don't have a problem on trying to moderate the forums if you need me to.

[lolix]

honestly Kotono , we both know how the whole Fark issue went on the Aigis subforum , so overall , i'm personally okay with stoping unregistered people from posting. But honestly , i don;t think what happened in this subforum in said thread is a direct consequence of having unregistered , seeing that there were also registered people arguing and being uncivil.

Honestly , having a moderator would solve most of the issues , i agree

[sanahtlig]

I see that various groups are dissatisfied with my guide, or parts of it. I write guides about topics that interest me. There are topics I don't cover, or don't cover every angle on. Just because I or others don't write about something, or respond to a given argument, doesn't mean I/we're dismissing it. We all have lives outside this game, and limited attention to devote to any given project, task, or conversation.

If you want me to write about something, request it--publicly is best. If you have issue with something I've written, detail the issue and suggest an alternative. While I can't satisfy everyone all the time, I'll try to satisfy as many as possible some of the time within the scope of the effort I'm willing to put in. But in the end, what I do is a personal project--and yes, often highly subjective and reflecting my personal viewpoint at a given time--and you're free to use or not use the resources I provide. You're also free to say when you disagree and state your alternative view.

One goal of my project is entirely selfish: to document responses in the past so I don't need to repeat them over and over in the future. Because I really hate repeating myself. But! Just because my opinion changes doesn't mean the guide will change, especially immediately. Because again, my time and attention are limited and it's now a massive document. Some changes are difficult to implement. Others I just find tedious and don't want to do because this isn't my job. As with anything, use the guide as a starting point for discussion (as I always intended it to be) and not as a Bible that will tell you everything you ever need to know about everything. A lot of it is just the opinion of one person, however informed or uninformed it might be.

What my guide IS is a unique resource that doesn't shy away from the subjective, which I think is the problem many have with it. They have their own ideas, based on their own set of premises, and they can be VERY insistent on their objective truth. Instead of badgering me, I think these people would find that writing their own guide--written for general consumption, and not just loosely disseminated amongst their posse--would be a more productive use of their time.

[sanahtlig]

honestly Kotono , we both know how the whole Fark issue went on the Aigis subforum , so overall , i'm personally okay with stoping unregistered people from posting. But honestly , i don;t think what happened in this subforum in said thread is a direct consequence of having unregistered , seeing that there were also registered people arguing and being uncivil.

Honestly , having a moderator would solve most of the issues , i agree

If registered users can just log out and act out their aggressive impulses using an unregistered account, I don't think anything else we do will matter (including imposing moderation). Also, you're focusing too much on the straw that broke the camel's back. This is just the latest conflagration resulting from an underlying pattern of behavior, which unregistered accounts contributed to.

Regardless, community building requires asking for a degree of commitment. If people just want a question answered, there's other places for that. I would personally prefer a friendly environment for discussion, rather than a simple Q&A hub.