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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sanahtlig View Post
    It's not -25% vs. -10%. It's -25% vs. -30%.
    You failed to mention 25% + the part about a free EX slot for PF vs 30%, where 20% occupies the same EX slot

    There's also the fact that, if you do indeed lack or cannot freely use your debuffer hime at hand due to mission restriction / tower lock, Heracles alone can cover 45%.
    Last edited by Bear; 03-31-2018 at 11:23 PM.


  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    You failed to mention 25% + the part about a free EX slot for PF vs 30%, where 20% occupies the same EX slot

    There's also the fact that, if you do indeed lack or cannot freely use your debuffer hime at hand due to mission restriction / tower lock, Heracles alone can cover 45%.
    Yes, all of this was already in the quote or implied by context--which was also qualified as speculation amidst other speculation in a thread focused on a different topic. That said, I am definitely interested in your ideas on when Hercules + PF is superior to Shingen.

    Again, I appreciate your perspective, but I'd also appreciate not being combative for its own sake, though I realize this is fashionable in certain sections of the community. I'm sure you didn't join this community just to pick a fight with me, right? ...right?
    Last edited by sanahtlig; 04-01-2018 at 12:10 AM.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by sanahtlig View Post
    Yes, all of this was already in the quote or implied by context--which was also qualified as speculation amidst other speculation in a thread focused on a different topic. That said, I am definitely interested in your ideas on when Hercules + PF is superior to Shingen.

    Again, I appreciate your perspective, but I'd also appreciate not being combative for its own sake, though I realize this is fashionable in certain sections of the community. I'm sure you didn't join this community just to pick a fight with me, right? ...right?
    I have zero interest in you or your personal beef with whatever. But you can be sure that you will attract my attention if you speak of any misinformed insight and theory-crafting, genuine or not.

    Anyway back on topic. I do not believe Heracles is superior over Shingen, nor is the other way around. As a matter of fact I find both equally viable and there is no reason to dismiss one over the other. Since this thread is about Light, I will focus on Light builds for these two and in what ways they excel.

    Both heroes are both perfectly capable at using PF. Both also have good DATA rate, which in turn means consistent lead in burst gauge (so you don't end up waiting for the hero's gauge to perform FB).

    Heracles covers the much needed debuff gap for Light Team. The nature of her nuke also gives her good synergy with Light, an element where party buff is abundant and can give Heracles so many buff stacks that she can reach straight for dmg cap with minimal debuff. She is also nigh unkillable during the 5T in which her def + reflect + regen buff is active. Should your party starts falling apart, you can almost be certain that Heracles will be the last 2 or 3 standing. A hero that can stay alive = more chance to use summon actives especially when one of those can turn the tide of battle.

    Shingen can provide an okay-ish party DATA buff and is fast enough to burst twice before any other of team is ready for burst, further speeding up your FB speed. Light team units, before Tishtrya, Takeminakata and the advent of Mike AW, tend to be notoriously sluggish. Their only saving grace was Managarmr whose active is a very strong DATA buff, but still no where close to satisfactory. Shingen provides Light team a much needed boost in the speed department.

    Choosing between Heracles and Shingen is like choosing between Raw Power and Speed. 'One Man Army' vs 'Slightly Faster Burst Cycle.' In the end it's entirely up to personal preference. I should mention though, Shingen has recently lost her edge against Heracles exactly because of the 3 mentioned units. But hey you can't really expect everyone to have those readily available so this point is half moot.

    Example Heracles and Shingen builds... I was going to say that. But then I realize all my builds works with both Heracles and Shingen with only minor differences in performance, the differences I already mentioned above. In the end, just pick whoever suits your play style more. There's simply no logical nor practical purpose in trying to place one above the other. IMHO there would be more room for discussion if this were a comparison vs Arthur or Morgan -shrug-

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Choosing between Heracles and Shingen is like choosing between Raw Power and Speed. 'One Man Army' vs 'Slightly Faster Burst Cycle.' In the end it's entirely up to personal preference. I should mention though, Shingen has recently lost her edge against Heracles exactly because of the 3 mentioned units. But hey you can't really expect everyone to have those readily available so this point is half moot.
    Perhaps the question then is: which build is more optimal for tackling with upcoming content (events, quests etc)? This is kinda considering that regalia farming for 4 copies of the relic weapons to MLB is quite a huge pain in the butt, unless there was some method of optimisation?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac View Post
    Perhaps the question then is: which build is more optimal for tackling with upcoming content (events, quests etc)? This is kinda considering that regalia farming for 4 copies of the relic weapons to MLB is quite a huge pain in the butt, unless there was some method of optimisation?
    For Light, I prefer Herc first for more nuking and tanking. More high nuke dmg = better gauge control.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    -- Just FYI Herc Weapon debuff is 25% and --
    Oh, oh, I said last time it'd be my final question but... one more!

    What IS the Affliction rate of the Hercules weapons? Since Wrath Bow has MISERABLE hit rate, like 80% or less. And since it's not even being cast, during Union events it's still not 100%...

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Oh, oh, I said last time it'd be my final question but... one more!

    What IS the Affliction rate of the Hercules weapons?
    Extremely high. Still doesn't work on WinRag or Dysnomia and the likes but otherwise rarely ever misses.

  8. #48
    @Bear,

    how does no heal work in DMM meta? i get it works in low level content but in long fights, especially multi stage fights, how do ppl sustain the dmg?

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    I have zero interest in you or your personal beef with whatever. But you can be sure that you will attract my attention if you speak of any misinformed insight and theory-crafting, genuine or not.
    Attacking people you disagree with--even when you're "right"--is not the way to build a healthy community, unless your goal is to become the sole source of information and spend your time personally answering everyone's questions. It just discourages people from contributing.

    For example, I could've told QXZ that his guides are ignorant and filled with errors, and it's not a new player's place to try and write about content he clearly doesn't understand. But I didn't. Because I *want* him to participate. I want him to make mistakes and improve, and hopefully tell me things I don't know. So instead of harshly calling him out, I pointed out a few key areas that caught my eye as misleading or that I disagreed with, and left it at that. There's still much I don't agree with. But it's not my guide, it's his, and I'm not going to insist on my viewpoints just because I think I'm right.
    Magicami Starter Guide: Rerolling for Success
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  10. #50
    Where did he attack you? Holly molly, stop the drama.. The other guy is only explaining stuff and you are trying to push it into a discussion in a smooth way.

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