Thread: Consolidated Light Team Topic

I've been thinking about it and something I've notice that we haven't really been accounting for are eidolons. You can honestly use any soul you want Provisional Forest with a end game light team. You just need one or more of the following eidolons: Takemikazuchi, Sleipnir or Jack o Lantern. There's a few more further down the line that will work too as well, a light eidolon from a collaboration event that gives +10 burst and another light one from the next xmas raid event that gives zeal (same as Jack).

The cons:
-They require gacha eidolons or a raid event eidolon that have already passed or have yet to be released.
-It takes longer to set up in for some of them because of eidolon cooldowns, this being the biggest weakness compared to Shingen/Hercules build, reducing overall output and risky in general for some fights.
-None of them have -50% atk/def down even with eidolons, Hercules is the only one and Shingen if you're willing to drop Micheal.
-Also may reduce the effectiveness of the 100% light eidolon if using off element eidolons. (I'm not completely sure how they work but I believe the light 100% requires a full light eidolon grid for max effect?).

Examples:
-
Joan w/ PF, Micheal, Artemis, Tsukuyomi, Sol. At least 1 burst increase related eidolon.
This set up works quite nicely because Joan fills the missing a-frame atk down you lose from not having Raph or Eros and just having Joan in general provides a lot of defensive utilities, even more so depending on which weapon you choose. Micheal and the eidolon to fill the missing burst from PF within the 3 turns you have before it runs out.

Joan and Sol for -40% atk. Artemis and Tsukyomi for -35%. Additional -10% to both if factoring eidolons for 50/45 atk/def down.


-
Mordred w/ PF, Micheal, Artemis, Tsukuyomi, Sol. At least 1 burst increase related eidolon.
Like Joan, Mordred doesn't have any ways to increase her burst gain so Micheal and a eidolon are required. But simply having Mordred here makes your life easier due all she provides.

Mordred and Sol for -30% atk. Mordred, Artemis and Tsukyomi for -45%. Additional -10% to both if factoring eidolons for 40/50 atk/def down.


-
Morgan w/ PF, Artemis Tsukyomi, Sol, Eros/Raph. You don't need a eidolon for her build but you can still use one to hasten a second full burst.
Using her guaranteed Triple Attack buff on herself, she can fill the burst lost from PF in 2 turns on her own, meaning you can replace Micheal.

Sol and Eros for -40% atk (or 35% with Raph). Artemis and Tsukyomi for -35%. Additional -10% to both if factoring eidolons for 50/45 atk/def down.


-
Arthur w/ PF, Artemis Tsukyomi, Sol, Eros/Raph.
Same as Morgan except you can do it in a single turn with her skill that completely fills the burst gauge after using PF.


-
There's always the option of swapping out one of the defense down himes for a atk down if needed but since burst builds are generally about big numbers, I will opt for def down over atk downs.

Overall, many of the builds rely on Micheal but some of them don't actually need her to use Provisional Forest, she's there simply to speed things up, which is especially useful during burst hours. Hercules for example can get +50 burst within 2 turns on her own with her atk weapon that gives +30 burst and 2 regular attacks. Meaning you can can still get a full burst before PV runs out. Using Micheal, you can simply do it immediately.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

-None of them have -50% atk/def down even with eidolons, Hercules is the only one and Shingen if you're willing to drop Micheal.

Your ex skill is free on Shingen so you can still run SS.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

-Also may reduce the effectiveness of the 100% light eidolon if using off element eidolons. (I'm not completely sure how they work but I believe the light 100% requires a full light eidolon grid for max effect?).

Yep. and it seems like she always starts at 80% even MLB, meaning that you're loosing from 4% to 8% light atk for each non-light eidolon.
Edit : just to be precise , it only concern sub eidolons. You can still run Thunderbird or Behemoth as main/ support

No offense but i'm a bit skeptical about those build. I would agree with Arthur and Morgan, with Triya instead of Eros

Originally Posted by Yolodesu

Your ex skill is free on Shingen so you can still run SS.



Yep. and it seems like she always starts at 80% even MLB, meaning that you're loosing from 4% to 8% light atk for each non-light eidolon.

Yea, seems I forgot Shingen's Ex skill slot, was too focused on Provisional Forest. So you can get 50 atk/def down on her too with the help of eidolons and without eidolons if you wanted to drop Micheal.

Just curious about this, but how much value is this light comp? Can also look at this for SR/R required missions/content, and for dark tower WAY later down the line.

-access to all souls, but only has herc weapon

-SSR kami are Sol, Tsukiyomi, SSR Artemis, Raphael, Michael, Vishnu, Atum, Frey, Shamash, Metatron

-SR kami are Artemis, Belobog, Uranus, Light Brynhildr, Baldr, Diana, Uzume, Demeter, Anteros, Djehuti, Attar, Sati

-R kami are Urania, Dike, Inanna, Orpheus, Light Nergal, Light Perun, Aurora, Daphne, Kamadeva, Light Caspiel, Aten, Dis

-Has a 1 star God Kaiser, but best eidolon for main effect is event ones


I'm making this ignore other weapons cause those are expendable (especially to future FLB ones). Just mentioning that one.

So, with Lugh out there is only Iris in the future mentioned in OP. But we are in the June meta, as described here now.

is Yoda master your father?

Originally Posted by Crow

So, with Lugh out there is only Iris in the future mentioned in OP. But we are in the June meta, as described here now.

Randomly decided to peruse through the forum and read all the spoilers in the main post. I noticed a number of things that seem outdated or just plain don't jive with my experience. Would be curious what other light users think of the following changes to the main post:

In the offensive hime section:

• Needs to mention Metatron. With her awakening, she is very strong, especially against debuff resistant stuff. She is no longer just a burst chain repairer sub.
• Frey is worth mentioning. I wouldn't mtix her, but if you happen to draw her, she is very powerful when bursting against a raging enemy.

In the defensive hime section:

• Light Athena is worth mentioning. She is the only light SSR to have team-wide dmg cut. She gets a rework later iirc where she starts the battle with fortitude so she won't die so easily.
• Shamash is also worth mentioning imo though she is easily outclassed by more offensive builds.
• Eros gets an awakening at some point, though I think that's really far out. She becomes very good with her AW though - her affliction block turns into affliction absorption that gives 20 burst. On burst, Eros can cast affliction block again, so she works really well in super fast light teams like Mike AW and Lugh.

In the eidolon section:

• Thunderbird deserves a mention. MLB thunderbird is 60% elemental and her active is also a DA boost, so she's very similar to fluffy. If like me, you didn't roll into fluffy, you probably have a higher chance of getting LB3 or MLB Thunderbird before you get fluffy if ever.

In the popular builds section:

I think build is a bad way to look at light, especially if you have more than 4 light SSRs. I think it's more useful to take a modular approach with Tish and Mike AW as the core and you attach on whatever is most needed for an encounter:

Mike AW speeds up the whole team. Tish's TA buff indirectly speeds up the whole team by speeding up the bottleneck hime (often the soul if you have the fast light himes). Just those two alone already turns your team into a burst machine that can consistently burst every 4 to 5 turns, faster if you have the right himes and souls. Tish also covers frame B debuffs and single target heal.

Almost every light SSR hime is built specifically for a purpose and serves that purpose very very well. Now I know not everyone has every SSR under the sun and for GO and stuff you can't always just use SSR anyway, so I will mention SR and R substitutes where I am aware of one:

Utility himes:

• When you need AoE heal or cleanse or removing annoying buffs - bring Sol (SR Attar is the closest substitute - needs to be lvl 65+ for cleanse; R Luchtaine can also cleanse but no heal)
• When you are dealing with debuffs that Sol can't deal with (e.g. paralyze or ability seal) - bring Eros (no SR substitutes, closest is SR Amon)
• When you just need to stall - bring Raphael (AW) - awakened version has 4 abilities all geared towards stalling: dizzy, orb eat, BP, mode gauge reduction and atk down thrown in there as well - puts Mordred to shame really (SR Forseti also has atk down and BP, but can't even begin to compare to Raphael.) Important note about Raphael AW and Forseti's BP - they have really long CD, so if you need it up continuously, you might still be better off Ex-ing Mordred's BP.
• When stalling won't do and you need to tank dmg - Shamash or Light Athena (SR Light Hermes, SR Attar, R Daphne and R Kubera are the best substitutes I can think of)

If you're missing a necessary light hime for a certain encounter, fill it with your soul. Once you've picked the utility hime you need (if any), fill the rest with offensive himes/soul/Ex abilities:

Debuff himes:

• Frame C debuff and insane nuker and burster - Lugh (no SR equivalent, though R Lunar Glory Caspiel is also frame C and a stacking frame.) Important note about Lugh - she needs a healer to bring out her power, Tish is the natural choice since she's core to the light burst machine.
• Frame A debuff - SSR Arty (SR Diana is also frame A, or R Dike if you are very desperate)
• Elemental frame debuff - Iris (when she comes out) or LT (SR Sati is a good alternative and is also a dark killer like LT)
• Frame B debuff (if you're not bring Tish for some reason) - SR Light Amaterasu, she's limited though, and it's only 10%, so, not worth it in most cases

Fast himes:

• Metatron (AW) - doesn't get faster than instant, though if you account for her CD, she is not the fastest hime on average for a prolonged battle
• Lugh - hands down the most consistently fast light hime
• Vishnu - was the most consistently fast light hime before Lugh came along, though she's very tricky to use, especially if you don't have Shamash.
• Takeminakata - insane DPS with her guaranteed TA, but also tricky to use
• SR Anteros - mini Metatron
• SR Durga - fast but randomness and her rampaging ability can mess you up
• R Daphne - guaranteed DATA, but can be exposed with taunt if you don't pair her with Kubera

DPS himes:

• Lugh - nukes every turn with stacking atk buff, then nukes twice as hard after bursting. Oh, and she also bursts again and again, too.
• Takeminakata - tricky but very powerful nuker and guaranteed TA and echo burst with flat dmg. Pretty insane if you use Morgan with a berserk build. She also gets 2 turn 100% dmg cut with her self-heal if you spend the sword.
• Iris (future) - my understanding is that if her rainbow sword procs, it's some insane dmg.

Special situations:

• Rage punisher - Frey
• High def bosses (e.g. Icarus GO) - Takeminakata - save her swords for burst

Sidenote: every once in a while, I see posts questioning the value of Tish. My guess is that these people have not experimented enough or pay enough attention to overall dmg (not just how much you burst for.) Tish enhances the team dmg a lot by making your team burst faster. She can keep TA buff on 2 members of team 5/6 of time and thus consistently speed up your burst by at least 1 or 2 turns. For full burst, each hime deals around 7.5x dmg even without PF, versus 3x if you get off a TA. Consistently bursting 1 turn faster means Tish is indirectly contributing at least (7.5x-3x)*5 himes = 22.5x dmg with JUST her TA buff every time you burst. That's a lot more dmg than even someone like Metatron AW. Don't forget Tish can debuff and heal, too...

If your team is so fast that Tish is actually the bottleneck (not sure if that's possible, since Lugh can't be fast without a healer, and bringing Sol or Atum will slow things down again) or if for some reason bursting whenever you can will mess up the timing of a specific GO mechanic for example, then and only then I think should you consider dropping Tish from your team. Although in that situation, I usually drop Mike before I drop Tish.

Typical mtix pick imo should be: Mike > Tish > Lugh

Sidenote 2 about Sol: she is still good but just given how insane an offensive light build can be, she should not a priority anymore. As I have noted, there are other himes/souls that can heal or cleanse when you really need it for an encounter, Sol just does it better but that alone isn't enough to elevate her above Mike/Tish/Lugh imo.

For the weapons section:

I believe the meta for light phantom grid is lance using Shingen lance, Mike lance, Tish lance, Lugh lance and the draconic eye shop lance. Shingen, Tish and Lugh are all lance users and will get extra boost from the lances. That requires some serious whaling power or pink brick power though.

The easiest phantom grid to achieve for light imo is actually a gun grid - Sol gun, SSR Arty gun, Barong gun, Nandi gun, Helishev gun (light advent next year) - for any guns you're missing, just get more Barong guns from the ori shop. This isn't the strongest grid by any means and only SSR Arty is a gun user, but is at least achievable for most people within a reasonable time frame (phantom lance grid needs up to 12 pink bricks, that's like 2 years time for normal ppl, getting MLB Barong gun is 4 months each, so even if you have zero guns, it'll be faster than getting lance grid.)

You can also get phantom sword grid using Frey's sword, Take's sword and fill the rest with St. Nick's sword from ori shop. Frey, Take and importantly Mike are all sword users. Again, not a super strong grid, since St. Nick's sword is only small assault, but it is achievable for normal people within a reasonable time frame.


Feedback welcome. I'm always looking for ideas to improve my team without breaking the bank.

Seeing ppl look down on Sol it kinda trigger me, try to bring a team with both Lugh and Tish in rag without any andro support user and see how long you can survive. Running Andro ?, you sacrifide Shingen dmg and slow down your whole just to kick Sol out ?, yes Sol is also slow, but she is a hime, not a soul, soul had to lead burst, that’s why Shin and Herc are so popular.If you place Sol on last slot she only need 60BG(40BG if you have Mike in front her) to participate in a FB. With BG skill from Shin and Mike, she have no problem to join 3t-4t FB cycle
P/S: 1.Since when Mike is a sword user ?
2.Lugh can only nuke twice in the first turn, it have 6T cd, her skill 3 reset her nuke.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Seeing ppl look down on Sol it kinda trigger me, try to bring a team with both Lugh and Tish in rag without any andro support user and see how long you can survive. Running Andro ?, you sacrifide Shingen dmg and slow down your whole just to kick Sol out ?, yes Sol is also slow, but she is a hime, not a soul, soul had to lead burst, that’s why Shin and Herc are so popular.If you place Sol on last slot she only need 60BG(40BG if you have Mike in front her) to participate in a FB. With BG skill from Shin and Mike, she have no problem to join 3t-4t FB cycle

Just to be clear, I think Sol is very good and I use her regularly for things like GO. It was not my intention to look down on her. I put her in the same bucket as Eros, who I also think is very good (even before AW) - there are situations where having Sol or Eros is a real lifesaver, and getting their utility from any other sources is just a real pain. When I de-prioritize Sol for mtix, it's purely based on the observation that I frequently forego Sol for various content, whereas I almost never drop Mike or Tish. Dropping Mike or Tish results in a very noticeable drop in DPS, which limits the content you can clear, how quickly you can clear it and how easy it is to MVP things. Versus dropping Sol, which admittedly makes certain battles very painful sometimes (mostly GO, espeically all 7 himes survive mission.) When it comes to mtix, it's a matter of priority, and my argument is simply that I would rather forego some battles like GO than forego overall DPS.

Also, just to be clear, I am NOT arguing that you should never mtix Sol. If you have Mike, Tish and Lugh already, I would mtix Sol. Also, if you are telling me that you are only ever going to spend money on one mtix only, then I would in fact mtix Sol, but mostly because Sol fits well in rainbow grids and is an excellent hedge against gacha RNG. Mike, Tish and Lugh plays on synergy - they all have potent burst effects and all make the team burst faster directly or indirectly by being fast themselves. If you only have one of them, they just aren't nearly as awesome and Sol starts looking much much more attractive.

Tactics-wise, I fully agree that running Andro to drop Sol is a bad trade, you do not want to do that. When I run without Sol, my strategy often involves letting himes die (usually Tish in my case, sometimes Take if I don't think I can make it until she recharges her swords) and rely on subs (usually Metatron, and sometimes Sol, yes, I DO use her.) This obviously doesn't work for GO if you want all 5 ori, but for any other events, it's just about clearing things quickly, casualties don't matter.

Two other points of consideration that may be causing our differences in opinions:
a. I only have one ascension weapon so far (missed the past light UEs). If you stack more ascension, Sol obviously gets better. For beginners though, they don't have ascension weapons either (the ori shop one isn't exactly great), so it's not like they'll see crazy high heal from Sol as first mtix.
b. I am not at the point where I can carry rag raids yet, so I have not studied their mechanics in-depth to see if Sol is a huge help. Sol is the only hime I'm aware of that can remove enemy buffs from all enemies at once, so if you're telling me that that is sort of required for some rag raids, then I will certainly entertain moving Sol up in the mtix priority. But rag raid is not exactly beginner stuff, so I may still think that you should get Sol after Mike and Tish.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

P/S: 1.Since when Mike is a sword user ?

Just tested it myself, replacing a sword with a weapon of similar attack results in a noticeable drop in Mike's ATK. Both the English and JP wiki also say Michael is a sword user (it doesn't have to match their unlock weapon, like Sol is a staff user even though her unlocking weapon is a gun.)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2.Lugh can only nuke twice in the first turn, it have 6T cd, her skill 3 reset her nuke.

I have not pulled Lugh yet (she will be my next mtix), but my understanding from the JP wiki is that skill 3 is usable every single turn (for 15% hp.) So she can nuke twice every single turn as long as she has the hp to keep up. People with Lugh please confirm (looking at you AutoCrimson.)

Three minor points:

You want to do your Hime damage capability over a longer duration calculation (like 10 or 12 rounds). That will give you a better read on Trish and Michael's full damage capabilities. I do believe that you are right, Tish is actually a higher damage output contributor for low DATA teams than Michael, but doing the math will help others understand.

Hammer grids are the easiest base grids for light to do. The assault SR is a hammer, Nandi Hammer and the phantom weapon is 30% assault. It's a noticeable improvement over a non-phantom grid and is cheap to upgrade or switch out of at a later date.

I've been told that Bricking Lugh's lance is a bad choice. The best choices are Michael's and Trish's instead. Multiples are preferred. Eye Lance is passable if you can't get multiple copies of Michael's or Trish's, but brick this last (in the hopes of dupes).


Dejnov.

P.S. Tiara combo is the best combo hands down (priority for almost all Himes), but there are uses for the Standard combo also (350 regen , 10T) for certain (non-Sol) team set ups.