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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Wall of text
    I'm curious about a few things, some not so important and others... maybe?? In no particular order...

    1. What's with hating Sol? Was it the popularity vote snipe?

    2. Did they fix awakened Sol's cleanse to work before healing? This is pretty much the thing I'm hoping the most, a Sol that works in auto battle against zombiefiers. And well, her sprite is crazy cute, but that's a separate issue.

    3. Is it still a viable option to have Vine cover whatever def break your light team lacks? I'm assuming a huge no if you have one of the 100% light eidolons.

    4. Are sword consumptions controllable for Takeminakata, or does she eat it every time she use an ability that spends one?

    5. Does Tishtriya's debuff res down come first or her def/atk breaks?


  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    A significant number of meta builds are base off either Heracles / Arthur + Herc Axe
    Wait... I didn't even realize that you could equip an heroic weapon on another Soul. I guess you have to sacrifice weapon skill to do so...
    I was planning to main Hercule anyway, i already have Michael on the team so burst generation shouldn't be an issue. That makes this axe top priority for sure.
    But yeah that's what i was wondering. Tsuku can be replaced assuming you have the axe's debuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Stack Abi dmg up acc on her
    Oh don't worry about that. I think i have mooooore than enough abi acc. She will be well equipped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean when they broke Morgan's skill to the point they had to remake the single ally 2x dmg berserk skill into a weak party 1.2x dmg berserk when they released her weapon?
    No, i mean the x3 hit buff cooldown, that is reduced from 10 to 8 when your main weapon is an arcane weapon (because of Morgan's assist skill). It's not supposed to work with a staff, but i'm pretty sure i've read a patch note or something that was saying "it works with heroic staff".
    But since i don't want to say false things, i'll look for it properly when i'll have some time.


    And i'll also look at all those vids you've linked.
    Thx mate you're a goldmine

    Edit : Nvm, i must have been dreaming. After watching your wind rag vid i can clearly see nothing changed with Morgan. I'm completely in love with the new KH btw! I'm pretty sure she's Yojimbo's daughter from ff10. And i'm not even talking about AW Michael. I look at mine now and i'm.... dissapointed


    ps :sorry if my English isn't really accurate. It's not my first language
    Last edited by Yolodesu; 03-30-2018 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sanahtlig View Post
    This is very nice: the first detailed guide I've seen for an element by an experienced DMM player. I'll add a link to this in my Light guide.

    A> How does Light fare, without elemental advantage, in high-difficulty content like Accessory Quest Rank 5 where the boss has high affliction resistance, and might also have an extremely powerful overdrive that isn't easily tanked?

    B> How does Light compare to a duo of Prime elements for completing such content?

    C>Do you feel that Light Tsukuyomi's built-in affliction resistance down is sufficient, along with Sphinx, to obtain an acceptable debuff accuracy rate?

    D>How viable are damage builds for any element without elemental advantage and/or +100% eidolons?
    A) AQ5 does not have noticeable resistance. You aren't going to miss much as long as you're not being stupid / crazy bored like trying to land Thor para against Wind AQ. Honest truth #1: Either you have strong and well-invested enough grid that you can stun Andromalius within 5 turns (or 6 if you run BP), or you play turtle and tank it in the face with Jeanne + Tank SSR hime + Kaiser element cut or w/e combination that gives you 95% or more dmg cut. There is no shortcut.

    B) Honest truth #2: Elemental advantage will always be superior. Huge difference in plain sight, no matter raw power, damage mitigation and debuff rate. I main Light simply because I like playing Light and decided to put all my extra resources on it. Does not mean I won't switch to elemental advantage when situation demands it. i.e. GO and Tower.

    C) Honest truth #3: Tsukuyomi's debuff are nice and all but I wouldn't rely on it. In fact I wouldn't run a grid that depends entirely on debuff. Especially not with the increasing number of new contents that either counter your debuff with cleanse spam or outright no-sell. If debuff lands, nice bonus damage. I try to maximize my chance for merry big numbers too with accessories and stuff. But if it ends up missing anyway, I make sure my build can still win without it. If I lose, that means I got more work to do. Simple as that. I made that mistake with my water team and it got utterly destroyed in Fire Tower while my Light/Dark/Fire team all pulled their weight. I'm not about to repeat that same mistake again.

    D) Honest truth #4: You will always assume that one will be borrowing 100%s for the hardest contents as much as possible, be it for fast clearing or simple insurance. You don't need to own one, but I see no reason why you shouldn't go ahead and borrow one for free. Other players aren't gonna restrict themselves either. I certainly ain't gonna walk into Tower without one when I have only one chance to attempt full mission clear. Plus it's ranked. You can say ranking is pointless all you want, but I want my extra medals to buy more bricks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac View Post
    I'm curious about a few things, some not so important and others... maybe?? In no particular order...

    1. What's with hating Sol? Was it the popularity vote snipe?

    2. Did they fix awakened Sol's cleanse to work before healing? This is pretty much the thing I'm hoping the most, a Sol that works in auto battle against zombiefiers. And well, her sprite is crazy cute, but that's a separate issue.

    3. Is it still a viable option to have Vine cover whatever def break your light team lacks? I'm assuming a huge no if you have one of the 100% light eidolons.

    4. Are sword consumptions controllable for Takeminakata, or does she eat it every time she use an ability that spends one?

    5. Does Tishtriya's debuff res down come first or her def/atk breaks?
    1. Just to be clear I don't hate Sol myself. I got no qualms about using her when situation demands it.

    2. Pretty sure that's intended hinderance.

    3. No and no. It's not a viable option simply because Light Team is already running short on raw stats. Vine is just a big NG. Secondly there's simply no reason to run Vine when we got Heracles who does the job better and faster.

    4. Her abilities will always consume a single blade stack per use (and her burst consumes ALL). You will have to learn to time her usage of abilities in order to maximize her performance.

    5. After. Another one of those intended hinderance.
    Last edited by Bear; 03-31-2018 at 01:45 AM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    --
    C) Honest truth #3: Tsukuyomi's debuff are nice and all but I wouldn't rely on it. In fact I wouldn't run a grid that depends entirely on debuff. Especially not with the increasing number of new contents that either counter your debuff with cleanse spam or outright no-sell. If debuff lands, nice bonus damage. I try to maximize my chance for merry big numbers too with accessories and stuff. But if it ends up missing anyway, I make sure my build can still win without it. If I lose, that means I got more work to do. Simple as that. I made that mistake with my water team and it got utterly destroyed in Fire Tower while my Light/Dark/Fire team all pulled their weight. I'm not about to repeat that same mistake again.
    --
    I don't understand the "not rely on debuff" thing.
    So let's get this straight - you're saying that it's better to do double damage, than do debuffs and half damage?

    While that's true, that's... not how it works, is it?
    Dealing double damage is an outrageous problem. For example, even if you go from 90% elemental to 200% elemental, it's about 50% more damage. And that's pretty much the biggest damage boost you can hope - yet, it's nowhere near double damage.

    Furthermore, there's a limit to all the upgrades you can do. Once you have everything at slvl20, and once FLBs are out, at slvl30, then you're at the cap that you can possibly reach. So, how does one casually just "have more work to do" when all the work is done...?

    I see no inherent flaw to bringing debuffs. With the exception of very few select Kamihime (Svarog, Uriel, Light Nike) whose buffs make a huge difference to your damage output, I don't really see an alternative to debuffs. Either they land, or you do no damage, period. If your numbers are high enough, then doing no damage can be enough - but that's not something you can actually influence, due to the caps that the devs have placed on your ability to grow stronger in the game.

    So, would you mind explaining just how your Light/Dark/Fire pulled their weight? Fire... well, fair enough (I assume Belial+Belial+Awakened Uriel+Awakened Svarog?), but Light didn't even have SSR Nike at that point in the game.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    I don't understand the "not rely on debuff" thing.
    So let's get this straight - you're saying that it's better to do double damage, than do debuffs and half damage?

    While that's true, that's... not how it works, is it?
    Dealing double damage is an outrageous problem. For example, even if you go from 90% elemental to 200% elemental, it's about 50% more damage. And that's pretty much the biggest damage boost you can hope - yet, it's nowhere near double damage.

    Furthermore, there's a limit to all the upgrades you can do. Once you have everything at slvl20, and once FLBs are out, at slvl30, then you're at the cap that you can possibly reach. So, how does one casually just "have more work to do" when all the work is done...?

    I see no inherent flaw to bringing debuffs. With the exception of very few select Kamihime (Svarog, Uriel, Light Nike) whose buffs make a huge difference to your damage output, I don't really see an alternative to debuffs. Either they land, or you do no damage, period. If your numbers are high enough, then doing no damage can be enough - but that's not something you can actually influence, due to the caps that the devs have placed on your ability to grow stronger in the game.

    So, would you mind explaining just how your Light/Dark/Fire pulled their weight? Fire... well, fair enough (I assume Belial+Belial+Awakened Uriel+Awakened Svarog?), but Light didn't even have SSR Nike at that point in the game.
    You could prob go watch how Dysnomia works before answering as well since you clearly didnt get the point.

  6. #26
    i am guessing the "late game" for Light is build a Dark team, lol

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    I don't understand the "not rely on debuff" thing.
    In short, a lot of fights have damage checks of some sort, and some of those are debuff-unfriendly (apparently more frequently in future content). If you can't clear those damage checks without debuffs, then you're forced into an Endurance build--assuming that's even possible for a given encounter.

    What are the alternatives to debuffs? Strong buffs. High-damage abilities. +100% eidolons. Damage builds such as Berserk and Burst builds. Debuffs can miss, but these will do consistent damage. You'll probably still want a standard line-up capable of reaching the debuff caps--but you should also ensure that you can output high damage without them when needed. That will typically mean picking up characters and Relic weapons that will enable you to maximize damage when it counts, even if this isn't the primary build you'll use for most content.

    That's what I'm taking away from this, at least.

    Thanks for continuing to follow this discussion and reply Bear. I find this a lot more useful than the busy and chaotic chats we've had on Discord that I'll likely never be able to find again.

    AQ5 does not have noticeable resistance.
    Huh. The JP wiki warned that the boss has notable debuff resistance. This wasn't something I could assess from videos, so I just took it at face-value. If it doesn't, that makes planning much easier.

    Elemental advantage will always be superior.
    Superior if you have equivalently strong characters between teams. Otherwise, maybe not. There's also the problem that leveling multiple grids is currently a real pain in our version. Apparently changes in the enhancement system have made this less of an issue in the DMM version.

    You will always assume that one will be borrowing 100%s for the hardest contents as much as possible, be it for fast clearing or simple insurance. You don't need to own one, but I see no reason why you shouldn't go ahead and borrow one for free.
    I don't write guides for best-case scenarios. That's the main issue issue I have with relying on +100% eidolons--same with you and debuffs.
    Last edited by sanahtlig; 03-31-2018 at 07:03 AM.
    Magicami Starter Guide: Rerolling for Success
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You could prob go watch how Dysnomia works before answering as well since you clearly didnt get the point.
    Yes, I know it has ridiculous debuff resistance. The question is, what can you actually do about it?

    sanahtlig gave at least a partial answer - using strong buffs (equal to a whopping three Hime in the game), building a team around around double full burst in as few turns as possible, using a Berserk build (built around Morgan I suppose) for a quick spike damage. But if that's enough - why can't you do that in Water?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    why can't you do that in Water?
    I don't know Bear's exact situation, but you need the right tools for the task (e.g., characters and appropriate Relic weapons). Fire was the first Tower event, and DMM players don't have a year's notice on upcoming content like we do. He probably didn't have the right tools on hand, but could have if he'd planned for it.
    Last edited by sanahtlig; 03-31-2018 at 08:00 AM.
    Magicami Starter Guide: Rerolling for Success
    Rerolling in Kamihime Project: How to get FREE SSR Kamihime
    Sanahtlig's Kamihime Project Toolbox: Includes damage calculators and other useful tools, data, and info I've designed and collected. Make a copy to edit.

  10. #30
    AW Michael only higher than Eros? She will be core for rapid burst light team, which light was seeking for all the days. Finally u can get some use of the fantastic light f2p weapon grid.

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