Thread: Consolidated Light Team Topic

Originally Posted by dreamlitz

Ok, I started having another go at this, but it turned into a massive wall of text. Let me try this approach instead (which is still a wall of text, but I'm trying my best...):

Let the average dmg per SSR hime per turn = [A*(n-1) + 7.5+B]/n where A is the average dmg from attack and abilities, the 7.5 is from FB (5x + 50% burst streak), n is the average number of turns it takes to burst. A varies a lot depending on DATA rate and red abilities, but I will be generous and set it at 3 (most himes are closer to 2-2.5 in my experience.) B is burst multiplier adders like PF, exceed and Mike AW's ability 2. I will set B as zero for the base case just to make things less favorable to a burst build.


It depends on a lot of factors, like how many red abilities you have and what your DATA rate is like, but the last time I ran some back-of-the-envelope numbers, I think at around 150%-ish assault and consistently bursting every 4 turns or so, exceed is almost as good as assault. Elaborate still suck though, so if you have a choice, listen to Slashley and don't choose axe (or my gun and sword grid ideas - I consider those sort of free since you'll have excess ori when you're consistently getting all 5 ori every cycle.) If you missed the old light UEs like me, axe grid isn't really an option anyway.

So dreamlitz, I apologize for not responding earlier and only with my brief note as I was traveling today. Let me expound how I think you should be calculating Hime damage per turn (DPT) so that you get a more accurate read on Michael's and Trish's capabilities. It's easier to think of having the Himes do damage for a certain number of rounds and then divide the team's damage by the number of rounds used. 10 rounds is easy for decile calculations, while I typically prefer 12 rounds for max whole number divisibility so that I can intuitively understand the bonus I'm getting 'per Hime', but either is fair and provides the same utility once calculated. I'll use the 12 round system for the example below.

A typical Hime will deliver their raw assault (plus grid and eidolon modifiers which are invariant for our examples) per round with a typical SSR giving 5x damage on the round it bursts. Base Balance,Tricky Himes are around 8k attack, offense Himes are around 9k-10k and Healing and Defense Himes are around 7k. If we take the 8k assault Hime as the base our Hime set is either 1.0x, 1.2x, or 0.875x depending on if their Balanced, Offensive, or a Healing type Hime. Our base Hime team will be able to burst every 10th round (soul single attacks every round and takes 10 rounds to generate 100 burst) and so over 10 rounds will do 1.0x nine times and 5.0x once for a total attack power of 14.0x. This assumption is fairly useless though as no 'real' team needs that many rounds to actually burst and that's due to powers and abilities.

If you're using Hercules as your main soul, with minor BG help she should be able to burst every 7th round and if you're using Shingen she should burst every 5th round. A team with Hercules as main soul over 12 rounds does 16.0x damage (5.0x once and 1.0x eleven times), while the Shingen team should be able to deliver two bursts for a total of 20.0x damage (5.0x twice and 1.0x ten times). This is basically around a 25% increase in damage output for the Shingen team provided that the leader can generate 90 burst in 4 rounds. You can do this in a couple of ways (DATA, Encourage Inspiration, Burst Up power, etc.). Team rearrangement follows that path. IF you do this through DATA please note that the base first slot hime has to still do 9 attacks in 4 turns instead of in 6 turns which equates to a 1.25 upper to overall damage. That makes characters that can up or guarantee DATA much more powerful (like Tishtrya, Takeminakata) than characters that just generate free burst (Shingen and Michael). If you do generate the damage this way you can add another 1.25 (6 rounds to 4 rounds) to the base damage on non-burst rounds. The overall damage output will be 5.0x twice and 1.25 ten times for a total of 22.5x damage or an additional 12.5% damage.

Current damage outputs are currently:

16.0x for a Hercules team with burst on 7th round
20.0x for a Shingen team with burst on 5th round
22.5x for a Shingen team with burst on 5th round and mostly DATA up.


The next damage break is if you can burst on 4th round (3 rounds to generate). This gives you 3 bursts in 12 rounds and 9 base rounds for a total damage output of 24.0x over 12 rounds or another 33% increase if through DATA for a total of 27.0x damage. Note that PF can only help every other burst and if you state you're always getting full burst than the 5.0x per burst goes to 7.5x (like you stated earlier).

Two main ideas come out of this very quickly. Getting the burst down a round (all else being equal) can really up your damage (from 16.0x to 20.0x to 24.0x), if you can reliably burst that fast. Also, DATA is very very powerful since it keeps damage output to each burst constant versus just getting more 5.0x (or 7.5x) burst multipliers in a 12 round set.

So how does this fit into Light Himes in general?

There are 4 fast Light Himes currently: Tishtrya, Michael, Takeminakata, and Lugh. (Please note: I don't have Lugh and so can't comment fully on her).

Tish ups the team primarily through Triple Attack (two Himes) and adds +20 per cycle (Abi1 and Abi2) to herself for a total of +80 base burst per 3 turn cycle (2 chars at 50% TA for bonus 30 BG each and 20 BG to herself), with most of her BG also giving more attacks (i.e. 60 BG x 1.33 multiplier for TA and then 20 BG base for a total of around 100 BG/damage effective team gain). Also note she takes 3 turns to ramp up (get the second Hime to TA) so she's a bit slow at the start.

Awakened Michael adds 100BG to the team per 3 turn cycle (20BG x5 per skill and then 20BG x5 after full burst for approximately 200 BG every 6 turns), but does not add any additional DATA. So her total effective team gain is the base 100BG from her skill.

Takeminakata gets guaranteed TA for 3 rounds (and then has to wait 7 rounds with nothing). This would make her effective BG 90 x 1.33 or 120 BG/damage effective team gain, but she can only do the trick once every third burst so her effective BG is 120/3 or 40BG/damage effective gain. Not bad, but not in the realm of Tish or Michael.

Lugh can up her BG 20 per round (for 15% health) or 30 per round after a full burst, but can't sustain the trick for long combats nor does she up her DATA capability. She's around Takeminakata's level of sustained BG generation; about 40BG/damage effective gain and can still sustain a burst every 4th round. Still not bad, but not in the realm of Tish or Michael.

For overall team speed, Michael wins hands down. Trish helps more with a balanced damage/speed output, and both Lugh and Take are initially fast, individual burst generators that tend to lack long sustains. Michael and Tish help a team burst faster, but more importantly can help bring a slow Hime (or possibly two) onto a fast burst team. Take and Lugh are first slot Himes and are fairly interchangeable as long as you have both Michael and Tish. The third slot can take any slow Hime (like Sol, Shamash, Athena, etc.) and still maintain the 4th turn burst.

My old team (prior to Take) was Artemis, Tish, Sol, and Michael with Tish always speeding up Artemis first and Sol second. It could make a 4th turn burst 80-90% of the time (sadly no Tiara Light accessories for Art yet) and with Encourage Inspiration could guarantee every 4th turn burst (and could nearly get 3rd turn burst 90% of the time). It did lack full defense down though. With my new team of Take, Tish, Tsuki/Sol, and Michael I can definitely generate an initial 3rd turn burst and/or sustain 4th turn continuous bursts and can hit full defense down OR bring healing.

Take, Lugh, Tsuki and Sol can all be rotated depending on what you have or don't have (I still don't have Lugh aargh!!) and depending on the content you're looking to take on and how fast you truly want to go. But you truly need Michael, Tishtrya, or both create any base fast burst Light team.


Dejnov.