Thread: What the Future Holds: DMM Hime and Eidolons

well since it's said that vigor isn't assault, but special attack... then doesn't that make it stronger than pride?

we're not talking an atk stat increase, but instead a raw damage one... which last i checked is more valuable... and if that's true, still does not change things when i said Vigor > Pride

plus i did also say that things related to current HP are still easier to maintain in fights depending on if it's shorter (more effect at higher HP), or longer (more effect at lower HP)... i think that still stands too

Originally Posted by MrSkd030

Here's something simple for you if shit GT is too hard for you
And another thing Vigor =/= Assault so Stahp comparing both

Attachment 10671

okay.... so are you done with the flaming BS now?

this is why i said before that people treating "misinformation" as a taboo needs to stop. it's really getting out of hand when people come at you this hard for a damn mistake and it's legit pissing me off

it's not that serious.... LET. IT. GO.

It's one thing to correct someone, but don't act like an asshole.

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

well since it's said that vigor isn't assault, but special attack... then doesn't that make it stronger than pride?--

I don't think there is a "universally correct" answer here.

Pride: Always works, even better when at low HP
Vigor: Ridiculously powerful at high HP, but you gain zero if you drop to 50% or below

So, which one is better will depend on content and your team. Most of the time Vigor will be better, but if there was an Amaru that takes 10 turns to kill, then you wouldn't want to bring Vigor for example.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I don't think there is a "universally correct" answer here.

Pride: Always works, even better when at low HP
Vigor: Ridiculously powerful at high HP, but you gain zero if you drop to 50% or below

So, which one is better will depend on content and your team. Most of the time Vigor will be better, but if there was an Amaru that takes 10 turns to kill, then you wouldn't want to bring Vigor for example.

which still goes back to vigor being better at faster fights.... as in fights (even boss ones) you can deal with in a few turns.

hence why i said pride is more suited to longer fights cause there's more chances you'll take damage or be at lower HP values

If you're clearing say, a ragnarok advent battle in 4~5 turns, you're likely going to still be clearing it in 4~5 turns, switching a pride to a vigor. You might see better damage numbers but when it comes to a battle that is already quick to clear, they aren't exactly better, rather they make little difference because you're still clearing within the same speed. Of course, there are several other variables to factor in too but if you want to see them being better, you want lengthy battles in which you can sustain your HP at high values throughout the fight.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

If you're clearing say, a ragnarok advent battle in 4~5 turns, you're likely going to still be clearing it in 4~5 turns, switching a pride to a vigor. You might see better damage numbers but when it comes to a battle that is already quick to clear, they aren't exactly better, rather they make little difference because you're still clearing within the same speed. Of course, there are several other variables to factor in too but if you want to see them being better, you want lengthy battles in which you can sustain your HP at high values throughout the fight.

but the way both of those weapon skills works is more damage output (in different ways) based on current HP.

not only does vigor use a better modifier for damage output, but pride also needs your HP lowered... meaning you have to spend a few turns taking damage for it to build up. opposed to vigor where you get best potential at the start. sure it drops as you take damage, but how much of your team is getting hit for that to be an issue?

i'm pretty sure vigor's damage increase boosting you at the start is gonna cut off a turn or two, making a 4-5 turn run become 3-4. or are you saying you'll get your HP lowered to 5% or less by the end of the fight to get the most out of pride, when you can just maintain it for a high vigor effect? cause staying above 60% hp on everyone in a short fight isn't hard unless you're just not paying attention. and if you got a buff/damage heavy team anyway, vigor is just gonna capitalize more

for example, my buff heavy fire team could rack up 70k-80k per normal hit with full HP (and of course belial, but that's beside the point). and this means pride isn't giving any bonus effect. vigor should be spiking that damage higher at the start (probably around 100k). Assuming it is giving a 20-30% damage increase, that's pretty much 70k-80k per hit now becoming 84k-104k per hit. that racks up.... more so given when DA/TA goes off.

so assuming you (somehow) get all 5 to do TA, that's 252k-312k per person or roughly 1mil-1.6mil damage that round. even then, if vigor is giving even 10%, that's still worth one extra hit out of every 10... it still racks up, but not as fast.

i'm pretty sure something like this is saving you a turn or more, compared to trying to build up pride's effect

That's still barely any different but you're missing the point. You said that vigor is better when used for short fights. I disagreed. Vigor weapons shine when you have teams that can keep their HP up and that will show a larger difference when you're running more lengthy content because quick content can be cleared quickly whether you use either.

Regardless, it was just an oversimplified example, I did say that there are many other variables that could to be factored in.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

That's still barely any different but you're missing the point. You said that vigor is better when used for short fights. I disagreed. Vigor weapons shine when you have teams that can keep their HP up and that will show a larger difference when you're running more lengthy content because quick content can be cleared quickly whether you use either.

Regardless, it was just an oversimplified example, I did say that there are many other variables that could to be factored in.

but at the same time, if you're clearing a fight fast, that means you likely aren't losing much HP

therefore, should vigor just speed things up faster like that, opposed to pride which just acts like a small assault and not much more (if at all).

other factors can indeed determine things, but let's be honest... if you're losing so much HP in a short time that vigor gets nullified quickly, you're obviously doing something wrong. no way should you have a team of 5 losing half their HP in a few turns like that (unless it's something like that nuke happy rahab fight)

If you're clearing a fight fast, you can still lose HP fast depending on mechanics, that's 1 of multitude of variable that could be factored in. Another example is using Zeal buffs. Another being how many vigor weapons. So on and so on. There are a vast amount of variables you could include which would just end up with the discussion ending as 'it depends'.

Regardless, I have not been discussing whether vigor is better than pride or vice versa, I have been talking about where you can actually see a notable difference when using it over each other. So like I've said, for the 3rd time, in a short battle you will clear the battle quickly enough that it would not matter what you use.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

If you're clearing a fight fast, you can still lose HP fast depending on mechanics, that's 1 of multitude of variable that could be factored in. Another example is using Zeal buffs. Another being how many vigor weapons. So on and so on. There are a vast amount of variables you could include which would just end up with the discussion ending as 'it depends'.

Regardless, I have not been discussing whether vigor is better than pride or vice versa, I have been talking about where you can actually see a notable difference when using it over each other. So like I've said, for the 3rd time, in a short battle you will clear the battle quickly enough that it would not matter what you use.

Perhaps another interesting way to look at it will be:

If you're a bit lazy to continuously change your weapon setups between pride and vigor, pride may be the better option considering pride is active at all HP ranges, while vigor is only active at half. Or you're that guy who wipes everything under a couple of turns taking literally no damage, then vigor. I highly doubt the latter is a thing though, except I dunno what the whale situation is in Nutaku.

Vigor will also find use for raid events. At high rank, in fights with other players joining, it's not uncommon to have raids fights finish within a couple turns before any major damage is done to your party, so these become more of a damage race for MVP spots, so vigor weapons can help getting that. Of course this is if you even care about MVP in the first place.

On a side note, I recall seeing a screenshot or maybe it was a video of DMM having more party set slots. Hopefully we get those soon as they can help with making alternate parties sets. Especially for me, as I am lazy to the point I don't even want to swap my teams out to do R or SR only event missions.