Thread: Guild Orders Megathread

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Wanpan.

That might be possible for strong Light teams, but since Light teams are not not possible for me....
It'll take like three months before I'll have built a proper Light Grid from scratch.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

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Since she punishes offensive/burst teams, I believe the appropriate souls for her are either Andromeda or Joan.--

I don't see how Andromeda can help when you're taking 5k damage on everyone on every turn.

I also don't see how you can turtle it up and take it slow - you either Full Burst on turn1, or you risk never bursting at all. I mean, I guess you MIGHT not be stopped, but.

Originally Posted by Slashley

That might be possible for strong Light teams, but since Light teams are not not possible for me....
It'll take like three months before I'll have built a proper Light Grid from scratch.I don't see how Andromeda can help when you're taking 5k damage on everyone on every turn.

I also don't see how you can turtle it up and take it slow - you either Full Burst on turn1, or you risk never bursting at all. I mean, I guess you MIGHT not be stopped, but.

Who said you have to use light. Run your strongest element and wanpan it. If you are too weak, you still have the option to use Fire and do easy 2mio burst with Uriel.

Originally Posted by Slashley

That might be possible for strong Light teams, but since Light teams are not not possible for me....
It'll take like three months before I'll have built a proper Light Grid from scratch.I don't see how Andromeda can help when you're taking 5k damage on everyone on every turn.

I also don't see how you can turtle it up and take it slow - you either Full Burst on turn1, or you risk never bursting at all. I mean, I guess you MIGHT not be stopped, but.

Try Joan... by the time you see her your 60% DEF will be up and you'll only take 3K every bad burst AND you still have the damage cut ability to work with. You'll need strong secondary healing to keep yourself going and a little luck (she doesn't do that crazy attack every round) and save every healing potion for her...

Bursting the first turn (or second) was what killed me the first time with her... You push her into rage and then can't push her out... You got to kill her without the standard tactic of saving full burst to force cycle change. She will kill your chances of a full burst guaranteed. This comes to normal attacks and ability damage. That and also rage (not stun sorry) punishers can help also.

She definitely takes a different team than the standard builds we're used to... she's actually kind of fun that way!!


Dejnov.


P.S. Cursed Canting Chains... that is what helped me when I did my Andromeda run. That reduces the damage by 20% and can stack with Hime defense up skills (4k damage), that and sub in the Kaiser Dragoon or Ray Dragoons for Dark resist or Raiko, Amaru also. Also look for heavy healers like Dian Cecht that can create potions and store them up for that battle.

Ironically, this was the first GO I successfully AAB... I was out of town, so I didn't get a chance to manual it until just now. I made a few observations that I think will be helpful to those struggling:

• The trigger has higher priority than raging OD, so as long as you deal enough dmg every turn to get to the next trigger threshold, that pumpkin bomb won't go off
• When I have VoF up on my light team, most of the debuffs don't land (I also use Barong as my main eidolon though)
• However, burst reduction seems to still land (or maybe I was just unlucky), so don't count on bursting after the first FB even if you stack resistances

A few tactical suggestions based on those observations (FYI my non-light teams absolutely suck, so I haven't tested these with non-light):

• Use spike dmg build, not fast build - bring the team that gives you the highest burst number, not your fastest team; the fire suggestion from unregistered is not a bad one
• If that's not an option, bring buffs and debuffs with long duration instead of short CD
• If you don't have those either, bring as much heal, def up, barrier, dmg cut and resistances as possible and time your abilities so that you eat OD when your kaisers/def up/barrier/whatever are up, then push Jack to trigger when defenses are down (if you have DATA buffs, hold them and stack them when you're pushing for the next trigger)
• Bring BP and orb eat, so you make sure the OD occurs at the same time as the trigger to make her skip the OD completely - you still need decent dmg to pull it off

Originally Posted by Dejnov

I've found actually healing, as opposed, to damage cuts is so much more useful against her

Get ready to toggle healing between Joan/Andromeda and Sol and use large potions as needed to keep your team alive.

That is my experience, too. I actually forgot I had potions, wouldn't have lost my SR if I used it, but only needed 5 himes alive, so, didn't matter.

If you activate Dark damage cuts as they're ready (because she's random you have to) you'll find yourself occasionally not eating 5k in one turn (maybe 3k or 2k) which means you can wait for healing to cycle back.

I don't think it's random, the triggers are dependent on hp (BIG thank you to Cobblemaniac for this btw): First action during start of battle, and below 90%, 70%, 50%, 30% and 15% HP. If Jack didn't hit one of those thresholds, she'll unleash the OD, at least that's what I observed, unless I just got really lucky?

Originally Posted by Slashley

I also don't see how you can turtle it up and take it slow - you either Full Burst on turn1, or you risk never bursting at all. I mean, I guess you MIGHT not be stopped, but.

The way I would put it is, 'cos you can't FB, you have to take it slow. So, the question is whether you take it slow with turtle strategy or some other non-burst offensive strategy.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

Bursting the first turn (or second) was what killed me the first time with her... You push her into rage and then can't push her out... You got to kill her without the standard tactic of saving full burst to force cycle change.

Doesn't Jack cleanse your buffs during normal OD? I actually think that's worst than the random effects. Unless you manage your dmg very well, such that she skips her OD 'cos of the trigger. I actually did FB on T1 and pushed Jack into rage on T2 on my non-AAB run, so I didn't see the normal OD to confirm (for reference, my team was Andromeda (Ex VoF - should have done Ambush instead) Tish, Mike AW, Sol AW, Sati (SR), subs were Attar (SR) and Luchtaine (R)) Also, getting a regular burst, even if not FB is not that easy unless you have a lot of DATA buffs and ideally have someone like Mike that just gives BG. I agree that not saving for FB is a good idea though, it's risky to wait if someone can burst.

I will try to experiment more tmr and report back if I noticed anything interesting. If someone has an idea that they are dying to test, let me know (I'm done with all the missions except beat battle X 3 times and participate Y times, so I can afford to take more risks.)

Did it twice without too much headache.

Team 1: Shingen, Baal(U), Tyr, Raiko, Dian. Saved all potions. 6 single + 2 team. Burst damage/abilities up to rage bar. Use Tyr's abilities to hit 2M putting her into stun, finish her off.

Team 2: Andromeda, Mammon, Tyr, Raiko, Dian. Saved all potions 8 single + 2 team. Using Andromedas Thunder Staff Planet Star + Pure Garden to increase healing.

Use support Kirin for resistance to afflictions, for 2 turns 3/5 of my girls avoided debuffs.
Dian creating 4-6 extra potions before facing Jack is super nice.

Team 2 took several 4-6k AoEs to the face compared to only 1 time of Team 1. Luck, RNG, Damage trigger? I dunno

Either way its a race to the finish, even with the massive healing/cleansing of team 2 I would of eventually died.
Never waited for full burst, just did it when anyone had it up.

Originally Posted by Slashley

That might be possible for strong Light teams, but since Light teams are not not possible for me....
It'll take like three months before I'll have built a proper Light Grid from scratch.

6.5m HP is perfectly manageable with an off ele team I would say. For vets anyway.

Granted, there is near zero counterplay to not being able to wanpan Jack, that’s the reality. If you’re a newbie tough luck.

ye I aabed it w/o losing anyone first try.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Who said you have to use light. Run your strongest element and wanpan it. If you are too weak, you still have the option to use Fire and do easy 2mio burst with Uriel.

I did run my strongest team - Thunder. But I didn't even get half of her HP off with the Full Burst. Andro not being able to use PF doesn't help.

Uriel is a pretty good idea, though. It... still requires you to hit for ~584k for the rest of the characters, but that's not so rough.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

Try Joan... by the time you see her your 60% DEF will be up and you'll only take 3K every bad burst AND you still have the damage cut ability to work with. --
P.S. Cursed Canting Chains... that is what helped me when I did my Andromeda run. That reduces the damage by 20% and can stack with Hime defense up skills (4k damage), --

I don't understand what you're getting at. When you're taking 5k damage EVERY TURN from DoTs, Def ups don't matter one bit. It's not the Rage that killed me, it's the fact that I was doing zero damage due to the debuffs and no burst, while the DoTs simply ate me alive (30% per fucking turn with probably no cap, fuck off). The Overdrive spam simply finished something that was already over.

Originally Posted by dreamlitz

• When I have VoF up on my light team, most of the debuffs don't land (I also use Barong as my main eidolon though)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

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Use support Kirin for resistance to afflictions, for 2 turns 3/5 of my girls avoided debuffs.

Debuff resistance is a giant matter of luck. Especially if you're forced off-element, it's just not a thing.
Kirin didn't let me resist one single thing at least.

Also, Burst bar reduction isn't a debuff, so you can't resist it.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

6.5m HP is perfectly manageable with an off ele team I would say. For vets anyway.

867k average needed for off-element one-shot... ... I'm not really sure I agree with you. With PF, it might be so, but Andromeda can't use that.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Uriel is a pretty good idea, though. It... still requires you to hit for ~584k for the rest of the characters, but that's not so rough.

You don't necessarily have to kill it with FB only (abilities are there too). Also, if she'll be left with like ~500k you'll probably finish her anyway.

Originally Posted by Slashley

867k average needed for off-element one-shot... ... I'm not really sure I agree with you. With PF, it might be so, but Andromeda can't use that.

You have Tit, so Wind Andromeda can. With Sytry you can do the same turn you used PF even. Wind's number of exceed weapons should help here too, and while wind weapon grid is... not great for most people, you should have it perfectly enhanced as it's Thunder Tower now.

I clear with my dark team.