Thread: Need Advice on How to Power-Up From Here (Long-Term)

Originally Posted by Slashley

snip.

Thank you for your response. I read through your thread just now, but I still have some questions. In particular:

- Do I need Mordred if I already have Ryu-Oh to fill that gap? (basically, am I at the point where I might as well skip Mordred?)
- But at the same time, I imagine Mordred is very effective for fulfilling the R-Kamihime Advent battle mission?
- Based on the above points, my current understanding is to prioritize either {D'Artagnan > Joan > Mordred} or {Mordred > D'Artagnan > Joan}, or should I consider other Souls?
- I understand Hercules is the best right now, but I'm right now, I'm very far from her (Spartacus (100) -> Achilles (300) + Rosenkruez (200) + Hercules (600) = 1200 SP). I'm thinking I should skip Hercules for now?
- Shingen is soon to come, but how does Arthur + Provisional Forest fare? (though the obvious conclusion to just unlock Shingen either way)

For reference, I'm 33k ATK so I'm close to hitting the 40k mark, and my current rank is 57.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

snip.

Yeah, I definitely fell into the Arthur trap at the start. I'm considering Mordred mostly based on whether it would allow me to clear the R-only Kamihime missions.

I'd like to list out my himes, but maintenance just went out and this thread might close soon. (To Laventale: Sorry! I didn't use the Q&A thread because my initial post got so bloated, but I'll make sure to do so next time)

The Orb Exchange shop thing totally escaped me, I barely even remembered it existed until just now. I also had no idea that Character ATK UP is different from Elemental ATK UP. Is there a rule of thumb for which one is better? I would guess Elemental ATK since it sounds like it's post-damage amplification, but I guess if the Weapon Grid offers Elemental ATK UP, that makes it more complicated. Worst comes to worst, if they're similar, I could probably graph them against Character ATK and Skill % to determine otherwise.

Originally Posted by QXZ

snip.

Water Team Composition Questions

So from what I understand from dictionary translating the JP wiki, Vohu Manah is basically used for her 3rd skill, a 6T mass 30% Water Vulnerability UP for 120 sec piggybacked on a Fire damage AoE costing 30% burst?

(I think her passive is that after taking damage, she has a 5% chance of resetting her skills? Which is why her 2nd skill allows her to instantly attack and deals recoil damage, and 1st skill guarantees a triple attack after a water AoE.)

Ashera, as in アーシラト? So she's a team Water DMG and burst gauge/damage buffer?

And then Snow Raphael for B-Frame debuffing and gauge control?

And finally, Aphrodite for healing, affliction mitigation, and Combo ATK UP for further stacking burst? (basically a better SSR Nike's role since A-frame DEF down is stronger on Ryu-Oh I'm guessing)

That sounds really good, especially Vohu Manah's debuff helping Ryu-Oh stacking her own. I'm guessing Ashera over the other two because the build would lack in damage otherwise? And I would need to find either a substitute healer for Aphrodite or run Andromeda if so? After reaching Ahera though, are you supposed to run Shingen to stack more burst gauge?

=====

Wind Team Composition Questions

For a team around Gaia, should I look out for SSR Cybele as the next priority, running Andromeda as the healer? And I heard some people trash on Azael; does that change with her Awakening (though that's REALLY far off)?

Sorry for all the questions, and thank you so much for the clear response.

Try to not triple post next time.

@OP,

Water Team:
Ashera has priority because her burst up has no replacement. Snow Raph can be replaced by Cthulhu and Aphrodite can be replaced by SSR Nike. worst comes to worse.... you can use SR Nike and SR Belphagor while you wait for more SSR himes.

finally.... Vohu Manah is just too good to pass over. her 3rd skill give 30% debuff x2, which is the strongest in the game.

Wind Team:
Since you have Gaia, SSR Cybele / Arianrod / Ideal are the ones you should be looking for. but you should finish building ur water team before focusing on Wind

Originally Posted by KTA

Thank you for your response. I read through your thread just now, but I still have some questions. In particular:

- Do I need Mordred if I already have Ryu-Oh to fill that gap? (basically, am I at the point where I might as well skip Mordred?)
- But at the same time, I imagine Mordred is very effective for fulfilling the R-Kamihime Advent battle mission?
--
- I understand Hercules is the best right now, but I'm right now, I'm very far from her (Spartacus (100) -> Achilles (300) + Rosenkruez (200) + Hercules (600) = 1200 SP). I'm thinking I should skip Hercules for now?
--

Ryu-Oh kind of fulfills the same role, but Mordred is super good. The thing is, Ryu-Oh's Black Propaganda has a fairly bad hit-rate. With elemental advantage + Mordred's Debuff Resistance Down + 6% Affliction from Accessories, it STILL doesn't reach 100%. Close, but not guaranteed. So, if you're not going to run Mordred? It'll be even worse. You'll run Ryu-Oh without elemental advantage? Even wose. I doubt you have proper Accessories yet, so even worse. In other words - Ryu-Oh will miss A LOT if you intend to use her in every team. You might still want to since her A debuffs are super good as a new player, but don't rely on her.
tl;dr; No, Ryu-Oh doesn't replace Mordred.

R Hime are generally terrible, but Advent Ragnaroks are super weak. Once you have your Grid set-up, you'll blaze through these. Until then... either Mordred or Joan are your best bets. But if it's Dragon Eye Shards you're after, you should rather be looking for a strong Union. Top5 Unions get ~15 Shards a month. You won't make it one of those probably, but you could get into one that gets ~8 or more.

As I said in my thread, Hercules is super good. However, before you get to Hercules, get the other basics down. You have Gawain and Cass at least (btw Andromeda is a WAY bigger newbie trap than cheap Arthur...), but grab the rest of the basics and then Hercules. A lot of Hercules' power comes from her Relic weapon, and you're too weak to farm those at the moment. By the time you'll be able to get somewhere on those bosses and you can buy Relic weapons, then you're probably starting to be at the stage where you can drop Mordred. If you don't have Hercules unlocked at this point, you'll be sorry...

Originally Posted by KTA

-- I also had no idea that Character ATK UP is different from Elemental ATK UP. Is there a rule of thumb for which one is better? --

To super simplify the damage formula, it's BaseAtk*CharacterAtk*ElementalAtk. If you play around in that, you'll notice through the power of mathematics that the "best one" is the "lower one." So if you have less CharacterAtk, then it's better to increase CharacterAtk.

The thing is, your weapon skills (Assault) are CharacterAtk. This is why your Grid is so important. You can reach 130% CharacterAtk(/Assault) just from your Grid. That means that the best thing to get from Eidolons (for damage) is ElementalAtk, since you already have up to 130% (10x slvl20 SR Assaults) from Grid.. This is why Elemental Eidolons are by far better for veteran players. For you? 40% CharacterAtk + 20% HP is probably way better than 45% ElementalAtk since I assume your Grids are weak.

Notice two things about ElementalAtk though - Relic weapons give 30% ElementalAtk and elemental advantage is 45% ElementalAtk. If you're running both (which you won't for a long time since you're not strong enough to farm Relics just yet), then you'll have 117%+ CharacterAtk and 75% ElementalAtk before your Eidolons. At this point, it's ideal to pick a P2W Eidolon from Friend List (100% Elemental ones) and bring your own CharacterAtk + HP. 157%+ CharacterAtk and 175% ElementalAtk, a good balance, plus you get 20% HP to boot.

But again, for now, your biggest limiter is your Grid. Farm SR/SSR Assault weapons from events and and Disaster raids, level those up with GemGacha.

Originally Posted by QXZ

--
finally.... Vohu Manah is just too good to pass over. her 3rd skill give 30% debuff x2, which is the strongest in the game.--

And it should be noted that Vohu is super good against Fire, but not all that good elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And it should be noted that Vohu is super good against Fire, but not all that good elsewhere.

No. Vohu allows you to run Shingen BG, she is pretty fast and can reset her skills by 1T.
At least she is making water way better. No she is saving it.
"Not that all good" you want her for water rst down+GTA and not fire atk rst down...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No. Vohu allows you to run Shingen BG--

Shingen BG?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"Not that all good" you want her for water rst down+GTA and not fire atk rst down...

GTA?

Also, Water is extremely debuff heavy already. That lowers the value of Water Resist Down a lot. Of course, you either need Herc, Cthulhu or Vohu to go past 40%, but.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Shingen BG?GTA?

Also, Water is extremely debuff heavy already. That lowers the value of Water Resist Down a lot. Of course, you either need Herc, Cthulhu or Vohu to go past 40%, but.

Okay ... I didnt think you would be so clueless.
First of all do you actually know the reason why you use Vohu and you should MT her? I guess you dont know it.

Next year we will have the Era of Shingen fast burst builds.
Furthermore you can use MP to unlock her 20BG Party skill with 6T CD.
Then how are you going to burst fast in 3-4T with PF and a team with Cthulhu, Ryu-Oh and Snow Raphy? You can't!
What does Vohu do?
Abi 1: AoE Water damage + GTA (Guaranteed Tripple Attack) for 2T. CD: 10T
Abi 2: Consumes 10% HP and you can attack immediately. Every 4T (add Tiara set effect + Sarsawatis help = she will sure DATA even without her GTA skill)
Abi 3: 30% Fire Atk down and 30% Water RST down --> you need 30BG to use it
Passive: At the end of the turn 5% chance that her skills will reset by 1T
Burst: Recover 2k HP.

With Vohu you can kick Snowy and Ryu-Oh. Especially with Cthulhu AW and she is fast after burst, if you use her Abi 3 because GDATA!
Now we need someone that can help Vohu after her 2T --> Sarsawati, who is basically like Titania.
Shiva AW will replace Ashy. Why? Shiva AW has a better party buff skills and only 5T CD! Furthermore she get 20BG every 5T for herself + her Nuke is strong enough to make up for Ashys Buff loss.
Shiva AW, Cthulhu AW and Vohu are the water meta.
Last spot is either Lakshmi for more damage and MVP stealing or you use Sarsawati/Poseidon AW --> depends on the situation.
Furthermore Lakshmi herself if fast enough!

Tbh that you are really saying that she is "really good" against fire and nothing-else is Bullshit.
She is basically saving water from the extremely debuff heavy curse.
I dont know why you think that you should use 2 useless slow KHs instead of Vohu in off-ele...

See, here's the problem. You're applying knowledge of "DMM today" to "Nutaku today." What's the difference?

A full year.

Vohu won't be out for us for FOUR MONTHS. Shingen's new skill won't be available until 1-2 months after Vohu is out (of course, assuming that Nutaku version keeps up to pace...). Cthulhu AW and Shiva AW won't be out for many months after that. In other words, all the things you're saying don't apply to us for at least six months, probably not for like 8-10 months. As such, what use is that...? If you want to look ahead, okay. But isn't that a little bit too much?

It's really Vine all over again, where DMM players were scoffing at her. Yeah, now that we're in age of Hercules (which DMM players were in when we got Vine), Vine doesn't have much use. But all the way until age of Hercules? Vine was fucking amazing. Let's not think of the "future" as "today" since that's not how stuff works.


Also, I still don't understand what makes Vohu so good. Yes, she's going to ready for Shingen. So what? The third slot will still need to get to 80 burst, the fourth to 70, and the fifth to 60. Wind does chaingun bursts because Titania can rake up her burst while giving tons of burst to others. Vohu can only do it for herself. And saying that Saraswati is like Titania is an insult to Titania, as Saraswati is capable of only giving decent amounts of burst to self and one other at 6t, whileas Titania is 4t. Of course, Titania is Awakened, so that helps her a ton.

For the next 6+ months, Water is ideally going to run the "Holy Trinity" - Cthulhu, Snow Raphael, SSR Nike. Last spot goes to highest damage dealer, which is really only Asherah at the moment. Sure, after that we'll be seeing changes as the meta gets notably faster, but even that only applies to ultra-whales who can keep up with literally every single SSR Hime for literally every element. Is that really the only thing we're going to be discussing?

Well, that's it. Thank you for coming all together to discuss a simple topic that could've been discussed from the beginning over the Q&A thread.

Now I'll proceed to do what I do best.