Thread: Need Advice on How to Power-Up From Here (Long-Term)

Originally Posted by KTA

Thank you for your response. I read through your thread just now, but I still have some questions. In particular:

- Do I need Mordred if I already have Ryu-Oh to fill that gap? (basically, am I at the point where I might as well skip Mordred?)
- But at the same time, I imagine Mordred is very effective for fulfilling the R-Kamihime Advent battle mission?
--
- I understand Hercules is the best right now, but I'm right now, I'm very far from her (Spartacus (100) -> Achilles (300) + Rosenkruez (200) + Hercules (600) = 1200 SP). I'm thinking I should skip Hercules for now?
--

Ryu-Oh kind of fulfills the same role, but Mordred is super good. The thing is, Ryu-Oh's Black Propaganda has a fairly bad hit-rate. With elemental advantage + Mordred's Debuff Resistance Down + 6% Affliction from Accessories, it STILL doesn't reach 100%. Close, but not guaranteed. So, if you're not going to run Mordred? It'll be even worse. You'll run Ryu-Oh without elemental advantage? Even wose. I doubt you have proper Accessories yet, so even worse. In other words - Ryu-Oh will miss A LOT if you intend to use her in every team. You might still want to since her A debuffs are super good as a new player, but don't rely on her.
tl;dr; No, Ryu-Oh doesn't replace Mordred.

R Hime are generally terrible, but Advent Ragnaroks are super weak. Once you have your Grid set-up, you'll blaze through these. Until then... either Mordred or Joan are your best bets. But if it's Dragon Eye Shards you're after, you should rather be looking for a strong Union. Top5 Unions get ~15 Shards a month. You won't make it one of those probably, but you could get into one that gets ~8 or more.

As I said in my thread, Hercules is super good. However, before you get to Hercules, get the other basics down. You have Gawain and Cass at least (btw Andromeda is a WAY bigger newbie trap than cheap Arthur...), but grab the rest of the basics and then Hercules. A lot of Hercules' power comes from her Relic weapon, and you're too weak to farm those at the moment. By the time you'll be able to get somewhere on those bosses and you can buy Relic weapons, then you're probably starting to be at the stage where you can drop Mordred. If you don't have Hercules unlocked at this point, you'll be sorry...

Originally Posted by KTA

-- I also had no idea that Character ATK UP is different from Elemental ATK UP. Is there a rule of thumb for which one is better? --

To super simplify the damage formula, it's BaseAtk*CharacterAtk*ElementalAtk. If you play around in that, you'll notice through the power of mathematics that the "best one" is the "lower one." So if you have less CharacterAtk, then it's better to increase CharacterAtk.

The thing is, your weapon skills (Assault) are CharacterAtk. This is why your Grid is so important. You can reach 130% CharacterAtk(/Assault) just from your Grid. That means that the best thing to get from Eidolons (for damage) is ElementalAtk, since you already have up to 130% (10x slvl20 SR Assaults) from Grid.. This is why Elemental Eidolons are by far better for veteran players. For you? 40% CharacterAtk + 20% HP is probably way better than 45% ElementalAtk since I assume your Grids are weak.

Notice two things about ElementalAtk though - Relic weapons give 30% ElementalAtk and elemental advantage is 45% ElementalAtk. If you're running both (which you won't for a long time since you're not strong enough to farm Relics just yet), then you'll have 117%+ CharacterAtk and 75% ElementalAtk before your Eidolons. At this point, it's ideal to pick a P2W Eidolon from Friend List (100% Elemental ones) and bring your own CharacterAtk + HP. 157%+ CharacterAtk and 175% ElementalAtk, a good balance, plus you get 20% HP to boot.

But again, for now, your biggest limiter is your Grid. Farm SR/SSR Assault weapons from events and and Disaster raids, level those up with GemGacha.

Originally Posted by QXZ

--
finally.... Vohu Manah is just too good to pass over. her 3rd skill give 30% debuff x2, which is the strongest in the game.--

And it should be noted that Vohu is super good against Fire, but not all that good elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And it should be noted that Vohu is super good against Fire, but not all that good elsewhere.

No. Vohu allows you to run Shingen BG, she is pretty fast and can reset her skills by 1T.
At least she is making water way better. No she is saving it.
"Not that all good" you want her for water rst down+GTA and not fire atk rst down...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No. Vohu allows you to run Shingen BG--

Shingen BG?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"Not that all good" you want her for water rst down+GTA and not fire atk rst down...

GTA?

Also, Water is extremely debuff heavy already. That lowers the value of Water Resist Down a lot. Of course, you either need Herc, Cthulhu or Vohu to go past 40%, but.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Shingen BG?GTA?

Also, Water is extremely debuff heavy already. That lowers the value of Water Resist Down a lot. Of course, you either need Herc, Cthulhu or Vohu to go past 40%, but.

Okay ... I didnt think you would be so clueless.
First of all do you actually know the reason why you use Vohu and you should MT her? I guess you dont know it.

Next year we will have the Era of Shingen fast burst builds.
Furthermore you can use MP to unlock her 20BG Party skill with 6T CD.
Then how are you going to burst fast in 3-4T with PF and a team with Cthulhu, Ryu-Oh and Snow Raphy? You can't!
What does Vohu do?
Abi 1: AoE Water damage + GTA (Guaranteed Tripple Attack) for 2T. CD: 10T
Abi 2: Consumes 10% HP and you can attack immediately. Every 4T (add Tiara set effect + Sarsawatis help = she will sure DATA even without her GTA skill)
Abi 3: 30% Fire Atk down and 30% Water RST down --> you need 30BG to use it
Passive: At the end of the turn 5% chance that her skills will reset by 1T
Burst: Recover 2k HP.

With Vohu you can kick Snowy and Ryu-Oh. Especially with Cthulhu AW and she is fast after burst, if you use her Abi 3 because GDATA!
Now we need someone that can help Vohu after her 2T --> Sarsawati, who is basically like Titania.
Shiva AW will replace Ashy. Why? Shiva AW has a better party buff skills and only 5T CD! Furthermore she get 20BG every 5T for herself + her Nuke is strong enough to make up for Ashys Buff loss.
Shiva AW, Cthulhu AW and Vohu are the water meta.
Last spot is either Lakshmi for more damage and MVP stealing or you use Sarsawati/Poseidon AW --> depends on the situation.
Furthermore Lakshmi herself if fast enough!

Tbh that you are really saying that she is "really good" against fire and nothing-else is Bullshit.
She is basically saving water from the extremely debuff heavy curse.
I dont know why you think that you should use 2 useless slow KHs instead of Vohu in off-ele...

See, here's the problem. You're applying knowledge of "DMM today" to "Nutaku today." What's the difference?

A full year.

Vohu won't be out for us for FOUR MONTHS. Shingen's new skill won't be available until 1-2 months after Vohu is out (of course, assuming that Nutaku version keeps up to pace...). Cthulhu AW and Shiva AW won't be out for many months after that. In other words, all the things you're saying don't apply to us for at least six months, probably not for like 8-10 months. As such, what use is that...? If you want to look ahead, okay. But isn't that a little bit too much?

It's really Vine all over again, where DMM players were scoffing at her. Yeah, now that we're in age of Hercules (which DMM players were in when we got Vine), Vine doesn't have much use. But all the way until age of Hercules? Vine was fucking amazing. Let's not think of the "future" as "today" since that's not how stuff works.


Also, I still don't understand what makes Vohu so good. Yes, she's going to ready for Shingen. So what? The third slot will still need to get to 80 burst, the fourth to 70, and the fifth to 60. Wind does chaingun bursts because Titania can rake up her burst while giving tons of burst to others. Vohu can only do it for herself. And saying that Saraswati is like Titania is an insult to Titania, as Saraswati is capable of only giving decent amounts of burst to self and one other at 6t, whileas Titania is 4t. Of course, Titania is Awakened, so that helps her a ton.

For the next 6+ months, Water is ideally going to run the "Holy Trinity" - Cthulhu, Snow Raphael, SSR Nike. Last spot goes to highest damage dealer, which is really only Asherah at the moment. Sure, after that we'll be seeing changes as the meta gets notably faster, but even that only applies to ultra-whales who can keep up with literally every single SSR Hime for literally every element. Is that really the only thing we're going to be discussing?

Originally Posted by Slashley

See, here's the problem. You're applying knowledge of "DMM today" to "Nutaku today." What's the difference?

A full year.

Vohu won't be out for us for FOUR MONTHS. Shingen's new skill won't be available until 1-2 months after Vohu is out (of course, assuming that Nutaku version keeps up to pace...). Cthulhu AW and Shiva AW won't be out for many months after that. In other words, all the things you're saying don't apply to us for at least six months, probably not for like 8-10 months. As such, what use is that...? If you want to look ahead, okay. But isn't that a little bit too much?

What the hell are you talking?
I am referring to your post about:

Originally Posted by Slashley

And it should be noted that Vohu is super good against Fire, but not all that good elsewhere.

Why are saying that she isnt that good elsewhere? Thats why I said why you want to MT her.

Originally Posted by Slashley

For the next 6+ months, Water is ideally going to run the "Holy Trinity" - Cthulhu, Snow Raphael, SSR Nike. Last spot goes to highest damage dealer, which is really only Asherah at the moment. Sure, after that we'll be seeing changes as the meta gets notably faster, but even that only applies to ultra-whales who can keep up with literally every single SSR Hime for literally every element. Is that really the only thing we're going to be discussing?

Sure, if you think so.
I run Shingen+SS with Asherah, Sarsawati, Ryu-Oh and Cthulhu --> 4-5T PF Burst.
The "Holy Trinity" is already over, who needs that.
Herc+PF I just go pure damage with Asherah, Shiva, Cthulhu/Ryu-Oh, Snowy/Ryu-Oh/Cthulhu/Posseidon.

[QUOTE=Slashley;130453]Also, I still don't understand what makes Vohu so good. Yes, she's going to ready for Shingen. So what? The third slot will still need to get to 80 burst, the fourth to 70, and the fifth to 60. Wind does chaingun bursts because Titania can rake up her burst while giving tons of burst to others. Vohu can only do it for herself. And saying that Saraswati is like Titania is an insult to Titania, as Saraswati is capable of only giving decent amounts of burst to self and one other at 6t, whileas Titania is 4t. Of course, Titania is Awakened, so that helps her a ton.
/QUOTE]

Can't you even do the simplest math?
Shingen --> 20 party BG
Cthulhu AW --> 20 party BG
Shiva AW --> 20BG for herself
Vohu Manah --> GTA
Sarsawati --> Ally 25BG and high DATA up

Turn 0: Shingen party BG +35 BG for herself, Shiva BG for herself, Vohu Manah Abi 1+2 combo (30BG - her debuff = 0), Sarawati BG to Vohu and herself
Turn 1: Shingen 65-85BG, Shiva 50-70BG, Vohu 75BG, Sarsawati 55-75BG, Cthulhu 30-50
Activate PF, Cthulhu 20 party BG
--> Burst in 3T with PF

Furthermore you already stopped with this game, so whats your point to give advice ???

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Why are saying that she isnt that good elsewhere? Thats why I said why you want to MT her.

Because, I don't see her being good. Yes, she's fast. So what? Being fast doesn't help if you outpace the rest of the team.

The way I see it, until you can make use out of her fastness, she's literally nothing but an annoying to use debuff slut that only works proper against Fire. Mind you, her debuffs only last 120s and costs 30 burst to apply. That means you might not really be able to use the "main feature" of Water Resist Down even - less Affliction resistance - since applying such a short debuff first may or may not be viable.

At least the 30 burst thing is manageable, since she's able to generate 30 burst before turn1 starts and then a guaranteed 60 burst in the following two turns. After that though, then what? It takes 10 turns before the guaranteed triple is ready, and with 120s, that won't be around for the second application. So you'll need to be mindful of how much burst she has available to her if you want to keep that debuff rolling. Is that really worth it against anything except Fire? Such concerns go away once your team gets crazy fast, but that doesn't happen for Water in ages. And even then, only for ideal or near ideal teams. I just don't see her as Miracle Ticket material at all unless she's either the last piece you're missing OR you ONLY fight with elemental advantage and your Water is sorely lacking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

--
Furthermore you already stopped with this game, so whats your point to give advice ???

At least my advice is valid today, whileas your advice is valid around... 2019-10-15? Possibly a week earlier. That's at the very earliest 50 weeks from now.

And even then, only if you have literally every possible Water SSR Hime. That kind of burst setup doesn't work if you take away a single piece, much less two pieces. Or more. You really want him to commit Miracle Tickets on something that'll only work after a full year has passed...? And that's if he commits more Miracle Tickets to it and/or whales like crazy?

Well, that's it. Thank you for coming all together to discuss a simple topic that could've been discussed from the beginning over the Q&A thread.

Now I'll proceed to do what I do best.