Thread: New DMM Feature: Seraph Union Events! (Goodbye Demon)

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Light Nike

Light Nike can be useful in GO and AQ5. I assume that means also AQ6 and AQ7, but I haven't looked into those. Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

On a more serious note, something being niche does not mean it's garbage. --

Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Light Nike can be useful in GO and AQ5. I assume that means also AQ6 and AQ7, but I haven't looked into those. Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Awesome for F14 Tower.
2nd Boss 50% Trigger... get her in rage, let her kill your meatshield, she will go in stun.
Meatshield is dead = Stun KH from sub will come and do her job.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far

Present GO batch has one stage with enemy that has rage bar, so it is pretty bad. For next GO batch stages 3-5 have enemies with rage bar. Will stun punishers be useful there ? Doubt it, but we'll see.

Originally Posted by Slashley

and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2

That's half of AQs though ? Okay, that's only stage 2, so it's not terribly useful indeed.

Originally Posted by Slashley

But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun

Hold on, define this "just about all content", because aside from Light present Ragnarok raids have stun phase 'pretty early'. Raid events also very often have stun phase before end of fight.

Also for me "niche use" means that something is less than optimal in most cases, but in some it may be the best option.

I can kind of agree on Catastrophe raids, as the majority of them see stun at least twice.
I would not agree with raid events. They're usually normal->raging->stun->normal, possibly a bit of raging round 2 if shavers were used in raging #1. Otherwise, by the time you hit stun, you've already gone through the bulk of the threat the fight poses.
Unless you're arguing less for materially affecting odds of victory and more for something else, like using a stun punisher to yank away MVP. Then there's enough remaining HP for that to be possible in some cases.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

That's half of AQs though ? Okay, that's only stage 2, so it's not terribly useful indeed.

Yup, the problem with AQ5 isn't Wave2 but Wave3. I don't think it's possible to get caught on Wave2 if you're able to clear Wave3, which is... not excellent design.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Hold on, define this "just about all content", because aside from Light present Ragnarok raids have stun phase 'pretty early'.

Humm, I don't have written data on Ult Disasters... Out of memory:
Fire Stuns once. Because he'll never Rage again, it's not useful there.
Water could be useful, as it Stuns multiple times. Have fun hitting your Stun punisher into a 100% damage cut though, huehuehuehuehuehuehuehueheu public raids are cancer thanks devs
Wind could be useful, again Stuns multiple times. Also, as debuff immune content, this is exactly the kind of content where extra modifiers - such as Stun punishers - can shine. Uuuh, who is the Fire Stun punisher again? ... devs? ... hello?
Thunder has the shortest Stun period of anything I've ever seen (what the hell is it, like 1%?), but if you're soloing, you can make it work.
Light doesn't Stun without some SERIOUS shenanigans. Even if it does, it doesn't matter since you just won.
Dark could be useful. Stun punishers always last one turn, so it's not like you'll get Dispelled or anything.

So 4/6, in theory at least. Which isn't bad if you're struggling with them, actually.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Raid events also very often have stun phase before end of fight.

I guess that's useful for the Raid Ticket solo quests. Aside from that, there's little reason to ever solo them - and if you don't solo, it's quite difficult to time your punisher right. Kamihime has never been very good at being precise with information presented to you in raids, and now that half the time you don't even see the messages anymore... ...

Right now only Light Disaster has the unique Mode Gauge size of basically 50% her HP being a full gauge. Fire and Dark have a fairly large Mode Gauge aswell, but can still get into Stun 2 times during one fight.

But, the major thing to keep in mind is, that I specifically said "after a certain point in power" she is viable. To clarify this more: Sieg specifically needs help to make use of her full potential, which is not an option if it already takes you 10 turns to get something into raging. Same goes for the Punch Dummy. If you dont have a proper setup, you gonna fall short, rarly overshoot though. The extra hit from her Assault Relic helps her keeping better control over Rage Gauges. The extra Buff from her Hammer helps out for regular usage to provide more party wide offense.

Siegfried is not a Soul that works by herself as the likes of Arthur or Herc. She needs more thought in her usage aswell as some support. She is by no means something for a beginner to pick up, I'd even say she isnt something a semi-veteran should pick up, but for veterans (meaning, proper understanding and knowledge of the games mechanics) and high-power caliber players, she might be exactly what they want to make more out of what they already have.

Public raids are often enough a problem due to either having the lack of information about the bosses status (bug that doesnt update normal-rage-stun properly) or to many people that it lags heavily (or the fight is just outright over before anything major has been done).

Siegfried, Ea and Oceanus are sick.

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm34127924

Originally Posted by Itoshira

--
Siegfried is not a Soul that works by herself as the likes of Arthur or Herc. --

Arthur works by herself?!

... well, I guess being able to be PF effortlessly is something...

Originally Posted by Pigeon

Siegfried, Ea and Oceanus are sick.

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm34127924

Notice that this guy is reaching 2m with all characters - not just Stun punishers. That means that these numbers are not something realistic you can ever expect to reach.

At least now I understand why is Water the strongest one in the dummy event. Indeed, when you reach the soft-damage cap and Berserk doesn't work, there's literally only one way forward. And Water is the only one (that I can think of) that has two Stun punishers.

That looks more like echo bursts here than the stun punisher skills themselves.

Particularly, the 1 million for Ea's echo burst impresses me, as that works at 200% + burst_damage_buffs. Keep in mind that it does not benefit from the stun punisher buff.
Actually, Lakshmi's echo burst is also impressive, as that thing is supposed to soft cap at 450k I think o.o

Originally Posted by Slashley

Arthur works by herself?!

She doesnt need any support to do high damage thanks to insta burst and having a decent nuke. Besides her Atk buff. Solomon is the same, can deal noticable damage by herself without the needs of someone else (this doesnt mean that with more support they can do more, just considering their own kit).
Shingen for example is better in use of the whole party, since she has 2 buffs and her Abi 1 is not a Nuke that stands out with high damage numbers. Andromeda & Joan are also in the same boat, just on the defensive side of things.