AQ5 thread

[Slashley]

And why exactly it has to be either "kill Andro fast with all elements" or "defend from Andro overdrive with all elements" ? Different elements may require different tactics for some people, it's not required to have resist in all elements but in one when you need it.

True enough.

Like for example:
1. Joan + Snow Raphy. 90% damage cut against all with 6T cd, add damage cut eido for nice 100% damage cut and you defended from overdrive once however many times you like if Raphy hits with orb eat.
2. Joan + Athena. 100% damage cut against water with 6T cd, you need to add BP to get it done more than once.
3. Joan + Raiko. 90% damage cut against all with 6T cd, need additional 10% add BP.
4. Joan + Gaia. 100% damage cut (with AW you don't even need Soul weapon against thunder), need BP to work more than once.
5. Joan + Bryamaterasu SR Konohana-Sakuya. 90% damage cut against wind with 6T cd, need additional 10% and BP.
There are probably more, those are the ones that I remember.

And again, very specific Hime. Sure it's doable with any of these, but a multitude of these are specific SSRs. Heck, all of them are specific SSRs except for the specific SR which is limited time only.

You can also go with other options of course, those are the ones with Joan. Hell, you can always go full retard mode and ask friend for 20%+ cut eido and get one for yourself, you'll have 100% damage cut with only Joan ! With epic damage like this you'll probably have problems getting to stage 3 though.

Uuuh, Eidolons are -10% each, so the maximum you can reach is -80% with Joan's defensive Soul weapon. Which with 50% Atk Down will still leave 9k-ish party-wide damage. While certainly survivalable for us, anyone who'd need a defensive tactic is very unlikely to have 10k+ max HP.

[Gludateton]

And again, very specific Hime. Sure it's doable with any of these, but a multitude of these are specific SSRs.
Heck, all of them are specific SSRs except for the specific SR which is limited time only.

Well... yeah ? I was not trying to say that everyone and their mother can do Andro with free R team ageinst disadvantageous element. But Snow Raphy + Jack Frost can open possibility of eating overdrives however much you want, while they often won't be enough to delete Andro in 6-8T.
And damn, are you doing AQ5 with full SRs teams (not saying it's impossible, been there done that) that you are negating one style of play because it requires specific hime ?

Uuuh, Eidolons are -10% each, so the maximum you can reach is -80% with Joan's defensive Soul weapon. Which with 50% Atk Down will still leave 9k-ish party-wide damage. While certainly survivalable for us, anyone who'd need a defensive tactic is very unlikely to have 10k+ max HP.

Actually the most cut you can find on eidolon is 25% (I don't think there's more, but I may overlooked something), but they have some cost of aquiring them (and only 3 elements get them). 20% eidos are ez pz to get (but there's none for dark cut). They both have no damage effects though, so you are looking at whooping 0% Ele/Char ATK from eidos if you'll equip both, you have to be pretty mad to actually go for that. But equipping one 20%/25% and 100% Ele eido is actually viable tactic, which is probably better than equipping two 40%/10% cut eidolons.

[Slashley]

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And damn, are you doing AQ5 with full SRs teams (not saying it's impossible, been there done that) that you are negating one style of play because it requires specific hime ?

Fun fact: while testing things on-element just so that I wouldn't need to pull out a calculator for all the damage numbers, I found out that my garbage Light team (with full slvl20 Grid, 114% Assault when calculating 2x SSR Prides as 0% base, using Managarm)... can't handle Wave3. We're talking PF Full Burst (couldn't even reach Rage before this, since team relies so heavily on Herc's burst effect for Def Down), getting wiped, Elixir, Full Burst (CDs not lining up for another PF in time) and still not enough, second wipe. AQ5 damage requirement is no joke, and is the first content that I find you simply cannot clear just because of an okay Grid. While it is outdated by modern Light standards (the only difference from this video is that Forseti was replaced by Light Amaterasu to allow PF), all it's really lacking is base Atk (and 10% Elemental from slvl10 Axe) and tons of HP. And no amount of HP will save you there.

It wasn't far off though, and if I had Frey leveled up she could've easily handled it. Hell, she could probably solo the goddamn Rage bar...

So yeah, just because you buy a few turns with Joan, what exactly are you going to accomplish?
And, it's not like I ever said it's impossible to tank it. I did say that "but can be doable for those lucky enough with specific Hime"
But luck of the draw - such as pulling someone like Poseidon who lets you tank Wave3 with Joan (Fire only) or Frey who can murder the Rage bar - is not reliable.

While it is also not reliable that you have one element that can do any AQ5, it's far more likely that players can be expected to have at least one such team. Either because they rerolled into a P2W Eidolon, and/or because they've pulled/MT'd some ridiculous hard carries like Uriel, who can probably solo even Water AQ5 Rage bar.

Actually the most cut you can find on eidolon is 25% (I don't think there's more, but I may overlooked something), but they have some cost of aquiring them (and only 3 elements get them). 20% eidos are ez pz to get (but there's none for dark cut). They both have no damage effects though, so you are looking at whooping 0% Ele/Char ATK from eidos if you'll equip both, you have to be pretty mad to actually go for that. But equipping one 20%/25% and 100% Ele eido is actually viable tactic, which is probably better than equipping two 40%/10% cut eidolons.

What are these? I don't know about them, but those aren't here today and won't be for the next seven months or so, I'd guess?

[Gludateton]

That's the thing though: that little Joan with some help may allow you to clear Andromalius. For example you can have Snow Raph and SSR Nike. Herc with PF may or may not be enough to kill Andromalius fast, but with Triton and SSR Nike on board you can stall quite a long time (get combo rate down as extra and Andro is not that dangerous aside from overdrive. Just as I've said: for most people stunning Andro before overdrive is the easiest strategy, but for some Joan with flag may actually allow doing AQ5 at all.

What are these? I don't know about them, but those aren't here today and won't be for the next seven months or so, I'd guess?

You couldn't be more wrong, most of them are there since beginning. Let me introduce you: Gandharva, Surtr, Aji-Dahaka, Minotaur, Succubus, Siren, Naga, Wood Nymph, Dryad, Gremlin, Slime (I may have forgotten about someone, sorry about that).

[Cobblemaniac]

Me recommending Joan is looking more at general use than it is solely for AQ5.

After all, our monster content is coming in pretty soon.

[Slashley]

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You couldn't be more wrong, most of them are there since beginning. Let me introduce you: Gandharva, Surtr, Aji-Dahaka, Minotaur, Succubus, Siren, Naga, Wood Nymph, Dryad, Gremlin, Slime (I may have forgotten about someone, sorry about that).

... oh christ. Yeah, sure, those exist. It's difficult to see anyone using them, but sure.

Me recommending Joan is looking more at general use than it is solely for AQ5.

After all, our monster content is coming in pretty soon.

Such as?

Joan certainly has her uses, as she allows you to skip content mechanics once per fight usually. But that leaves you with other problems - actually making use out of the extra time you gained. That extra time is usually only one or two turns more. So having a team which:
1. Can't skip the mechanics of the fight with pure damage output
2. Can run Joan with her reduced damage output, and still have enough damage to clear with the extra turns you gained

It is possible, but that's a really narrow window. I suppose to existence of Triggers makes Joan more than "survive one extra Overdrive" since threats in a fight can happen outside of Overdrives now.

[Ikki]

Such as?

Joan certainly has her uses, as she allows you to skip content mechanics once per fight usually. But that leaves you with other problems - actually making use out of the extra time you gained. That extra time is usually only one or two turns more. So having a team which:
1. Can't skip the mechanics of the fight with pure damage output
2. Can run Joan with her reduced damage output, and still have enough damage to clear with the extra turns you gained

It is possible, but that's a really narrow window. I suppose to existence of Triggers makes Joan more than "survive one extra Overdrive" since threats in a fight can happen outside of Overdrives now.

He means Hrags, probably the non nerfed versions, skipping things with a single FB is only doable for current content (content that its meme'd atm for most veterans anyways).

[Gludateton]

... oh christ. Yeah, sure, those exist. It's difficult to see anyone using them, but sure.Such as?

I used Minotaur at one floor at tower. My union mate (same one that actually told me about whole strategy) used wind cut eido against wind present rag when he didn't have enough power to finish it other way (or so he has said). One uses things that work best in some situation, as popular saying goes: "if something looks stupid but works, it ain't stupid".

It is possible, but that's a really narrow window. I suppose to existence of Triggers makes Joan more than "survive one extra Overdrive" since threats in a fight can happen outside of Overdrives now.

That narrow window is the whole point here. Nobody argues here that some strategy is best for everyone and anyone in all situations. Existence of that narrow window should remind you that there exist Souls other than Hercules and Shingen.

[VeryVoodoo]

AQ5 damage requirement is no joke, and is the first content that I find you simply cannot clear just because of an okay Grid. While it is outdated by modern Light standards (the only difference from this video is that Forseti was replaced by Light Amaterasu to allow PF), all it's really lacking is base Atk (and 10% Elemental from slvl10 Axe) and tons of HP. And no amount of HP will save you there.

I checked to see what was considered an "okay" grid. Confused as to what you're referencing to when relating it as okay though. If it's for a newer player, sure. Or before FLBs came out, could be considered an okay grid back then, sure. But AQ5s did come out after FLBs came out after all. And for vet standards currently, I would not consider that as an "okay" grid when there isn't a single FLB in it. I mean that grid has gotten 5 free FLBs right now at the very least (6 or more for those that were there even earlier I guess).

For people that keep up with FLBs in terms of updating grids and all that, AQ5s seem like pretty trivial content. But ye, if ppl are still rocking SR disaster wpns, then I could see how they might be struggling to reach damage checks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯