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Thread: Tower Megatread

  1. #151
    Only got 3 SSRs and my main Eidolon is Tiamat. So I'm glad I managed to get to floor 16 with mostly SR-tier.

    Thank you Slashley, your planning sheet helped a lot.

    Congratz Dreamlitz for reaching 1st place (dunno if will drop after tonight). Did that Defender Seraph Hammer helped you? =P


  2. #152
    Tower Medals: 7510 (inc. ranking reward)

    Meeeh

    goddam this event, one needs shittons of kamis to grind it properly

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessa View Post
    Tower Medals: 7510 (inc. ranking reward)

    Meeeh

    goddam this event, one needs shittons of kamis to grind it properly
    That's true, Jessa, but I bet you beat 10k next tower, and if you hold on to those medals you'll get the extra 2500 you missed on top by the tower after. Numbers of KH is just a factor of how long you've been playing (unless you whale). You will make up that power gap pretty quickly at the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Welp. I failed miserably. Lost 300 points on F18 after all Def Downs missed (failed 5 Hime alive). That alone probably dropped out of top20. Then lost 500 points from failing off-element clear (having my Shingen sniped on the last floor of Tower is kinda a tradition by now, but at least this time it was my fault for playing like shit).
    Unlucky, Slashey. Happens to everybody (or rather it happens all the time to me, and now I know it happens to you too). Thanks for the sheet, it helped no end, hot mess or not. I dropped 1 key on floor 15, then basically took 2 keys per floor, finishing on 18 with 1-17 complete, all missions. That's good for me, rank 165 at the end. So much better than my performance on Skill Check kun.
    Last edited by Chrestomancy; 02-11-2020 at 04:33 AM.

  4. #154
    Really hope so, thank you.

  5. #155

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    So, second Fire Tower is over. For future reference, here are the results:

    Code:
    01. nonsensei		15830 [71k,100e,285H] (Drama Club)
    02. SiegeDragon		15820 [69k,155e,296H] (Isekai)
    02. Kayn		15820 [65k,265e,170H] ()
    04. xelloss1012		15810 [67k,110e,337H] (DarkHell)
    05. Geidt		15760 [67k,120e,320H] (Drama Club)
    06. SwampyKong		15730 [58k,160e,316H] (Terminus)
    07. steklovskii		15580 [52k, 45e,242H] (Nakama)
    08. Ken			15540 [64k,150e,356H] (談笑颩甡學習俓驗 (Talking and laughing))
    08. Minerva		15540 [62k,100e,295H] (Drama Club)
    10. Osmium		15530 [65k, 65C,248H] (Cybeast v1)
    11. Little Hsien	15510 [58k, 50C,226H] (WindSoughs)
    11. dreamlitz		15510 [68k, 60C,293H] (Nonsense)
    13. Xellosp		15410 [63k, 70C,297H] (=Akatsuki=)
    14. AsD2038		15240 [73k,115e,320H] (談笑颩甡學習俓驗 (Talking and laughing))
    15. Caldernaji		15180 [48k,160e,223H] (DarkHell)
    16. Simple		15140 [54k,120e,312H] (Nakama)
    17. bedevil		15120 [63k, 45e,257H] (Susurrus)
    18. Char Aznable	15090 [58k,160e,255H] (Lalka-Doll)
    19. Mira		14960 [70k,110e,320H] (Drama Club)
    19. mlw61520		14960 [64k,100e,295H] (Axis Mundi)
    21. Slashley		14950 [61k,160e,286H] (Kingdom AR)
    21. (and others, I am sure)

    Notice, Atk numbers are not reliable at all, as the number listed here is for whatever team they had when I inspected them.

    Ugh, what a disaster from me. If I wouldn't have fucked up twice, would've been top5. But that's theory, and I'm sure something like that happened to others as well. Oh well.

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Anyway, until yesterday, I didn't understand what the whole turtling thing was about. Dreamlitz has mentioned it before but never properly explained it I believe.
    Did I not explain it here before? I think I've posted my light tower 15F run somewhere here before and the video description lays out the strategy. Apparently there's also a guy on DMM that has done this like a year ago but his videos aren't around anymore. A lot of ppl think turtling is a colossal waste of time though (and it is if you can clear things normally.) I typically just told ppl that I planned to turtle fire tower and only elaborate if they wanted me to. I was actually surprised to see how many ppl ended up turtling at least one floor xD

    Anyway, here's the short version of how I turtle:
    • Use resistance eido as main and friend support
    • Bring 2 MLB dragoons and 1 LB0 kaiser for a 3/3/2T rotation to cover 8T CD
    • Bring enough heal/dmg cuts to out-heal all incoming dmg

    Pros of turtling:
    • Lets you get through tower floors that would be impossible to get through otherwise with a crap grid and like no accessory slots unlocked
    • Allows you to complete floors on-element for mission clear
    • High resistance means that most enemies debuff will miss, making certain enemies much less scary
    • Very safe - as long as you do your research and prepare properly

    Cons of turtling:
    • Takes a long time as you deal like no dmg (each floor from 16F-20F took me roughly 1.5 hours each - ppl with better grids than I have turtled in half that time or less though)
    • You'll get zero from turn clear bonus - you're basically sacrificing up to 50 medals from fast clear for on-element mission clear
    • You have to invest in eidos and weapons that you'll probably never use again (except for meme)
    • Ppl will verbally abuse you for turtling - but think of the sweet sweet bricks you're getting and just wear the turtle badge with pride =)


    Here is the long version, and I mean VERY long for those that want to major in turtling:


    • Use a resistance eido as both main and friend support
      • All elements except dark have R versions with 20% resistance at MLB (all drop from main quests and gemcha - if you turn off autosell for a week or so, you'll usually collect most or all the copies that you need from gemcha alone)
      • Fire/wind/thunder have a SR version with 25% at MLB, making them the easiest to turtle against (jewel/star coin gacha only, but if you play long enough, you usually pull multiple copies of them - can use eido orbs to SR brick them before tower if need be)
      • Dark only has Barong (epic quest) with only 10% resistance, making it the hardest element to turtle against
    • Bring with you two MLB dragoons and one LB0 kaiser in sub
      • MLB dragoons' active gives 20%/15% resistance/elemental on a 3/8T CD, you get them from jewel/star coin gacha, but again, if you play long enough, you usually can get more than two copies, then SR brick as necessary
      • Kaiser's active gives 30%/30% resistance/elemental on a 2/8T CD (up to 50%/50% if you're lucky enough to pull dupes from gacha) - everyone can buy one copy of kaiser from eidolon orb shop (also, kaiser is a good investment for tower even if you don't turtle imo)
    • As an example, for this past fire tower, double Surtr already gives you 50% permanent fire resistance, after 8T, you can activate your dragoons/kaiser on a 3/3/2T rotation so that they perfectly cover the 8T cooldown, boosting you up to 70%-80% resistance
    • Bring enough heal and/or additional dmg cut/resistance so that you can out-heal all incoming dmg. There're several levers you can play with here:
      • Stuff your grid with ascension weapons (SR or even R weapons are fine - bricking them is optional since it just gives you more stats, I usually MLB all the R ascension weapons I use though, since they're really cheap to brick - 300 eido orbs to MLB)
      • Bring more healers (don't underestimate regen - as long as they aren't overwriting each other, lowly regen with ascension is often enough for turtle builds)
      • Bring more dmg cut/resistance abilities (you can easily hit 100% resistance with the right himes, e.g. Poseidon AW alone would have gotten you to 4/8T dmg immunity when combined with Surtr/dragoon/kaiser)
      • Bring barrier (either from hime abilities or from eidos - MLB Phul being the best, Tiamat/Python also works) - barrier actually works really well with high dmg cuts since it's applied after the cuts (e.g. 16F ROD normally hits for 9k-ish, it'll be reduced to 2.7k with 70% resistance, Phul's 2k barrier will cut that down to just 700-ish)
      • Technically bringing more def up can help, but not as much as cuts, since it's a different multiplier - e.g. Andro with her staff gives 3/6T 40% def up, so if you divide all incoming dmg after cuts by 1.4, you bring your effective defenses from 70%-80% to about 78%-85%-ish (stacking defenses also goes into diminishing return quickly unlike stacking cuts)
    • Make sure you bring enough HP to meet the following three things:
      • 1. Can get you through the first 8T when you're at 50% as opposed to 70%-80% resistance
      • 2. Enough to survive heal/barrier cooldown cycles
      • 3. If you're using a high ascension build with SSR healers, try to aim for 10k-ish HP at least (reason has to do with the 'small' ascension number, which can make you heal less than expected in narrow situations like a low HP turtle build - rarely an issue but just wanted to put it here for completeness)
    • Preferred souls are Andromeda or Joan (theoretically any souls can work as long as your himes cover all heal and defensive needs)
      • Andro is the usual choice - heal, def up, revive if you messed up plus 15% ascension from her energy release (and burst, too if you use her soul weapon, but you're unlikely to be bursting often with an Andro build)
      • If you don't have enough healers but have a high ascension grid, you might want to consider using Andro's lance instead of staff as her regen adds up to 700 base heal over 5T, which is almost as good as SR Nike. The staff will let you clear faster though (30% elemental atk) and the def up is actually very nice if you aren't going for complete dmg immunity builds
      • Joan is a very good choice when you get close to full dmg immunity on many turns (e.g. if using Joan makes you go from 6/8T dmg immunity to 7/8T immunity, she basically halves the number of healers you need.) She's also very good against enemies with higher CT - just time her dmg cut with OD - you don't need complete dmg immunity every turn, just the turns that hurt the most. Against the right enemy, Joan can potentially cut dmg more than Andro can heal
      • Preferred Joan weapon for turtling is actually her sword not her lance (turtling breaks all the conventional rules) - even without the lance, her dmg cut is 40%, which is enough to get you to complete dmg immunity even with 20% resist eidos. Her sword also reduces her regen CD to 6T, and there're quite a few himes with 6T CD regen, so you can sync them up easily. Also, elemental atk makes you clear faster
      • Common EX are maiden's prayer, debuffs or Morgan line single target heal/buffs depending on needs; some ppl like Joan's stacking def MEX, but you can easily turtle past the point where the buff expires and have to be re-stacked, so make sure your build can deal with that
    • Beware that turtle builds are not invincible and not researching what your enemies do can be your downfall. The following are some of the more common pitfalls of turtling that you need to be prepared for:
      • Mobs that heal - you can't fight turtle with turtle. If you can't out-damage the enemies' heal, you'll be stuck in an infinite loop where neither side wins (which means you lose, 'cos stalemate = mission failed.) There ARE ways to deal with this though:
        • Bring more assault in your grid and debuffs/buffs so you CAN out-damage the heal
        • Bring BP/orb eat to reduce heal frequency so you can out-damage it
        • Shut down heal completely with Girimehkala's curse active if you have her (LB0 is fine)
        • Light tower exclusive: bring Nebarius and cast zombie, so the mob heals itself to death - I actually did this for light tower 15F btw, very fun to watch xD
      • DoT - just bring cleanse. Note that high resistance of turtle builds mean that most DoTs will miss, so usually one source of cleanse is enough
      • Doom - bring cleanse and save it for the doom triggers
      • Dispel - you may need a 3rd dragoon if the enemy can dispel
      • Elemental resistance down - can result in you taking dmg even with 100% dmg cut builds
      • Non-matching elemental enemy, e.g. dark enemy on 14F of fire tower, so your fire resistance is useless - I almost wiped 'cos of this oversight
      • Trigger control - due to low dmg, you can't always reliably push hp/rage bar to a trigger point on the turn you have extra defenses up, so it is best to have multi-turn defenses up or be able to deal with triggers with just the dragoon/kaiser buffs
      • Other unusual trigger - e.g. I've been told that water tower has a boss that nukes you if you have buffs, so turtling might result in more, not less dmg taken unless you get up to 100% cut or something
      • Game lag - at high turn counts, the game starts lagging noticeably, so reliance on debuffs can be dangerous - they tend to expire in a few turns when I go up to 100T+ even if I reload every attack animation
    • Additional tips for turtling:
      • When deciding on what comp to field, you just need to know the maximum average per turn or per cycle of turns dmg the enemy can deal (usually during rage phase) - if your comp can survive that, it can survive all other points of the battle so you typically just need to math out one scenario per floor
      • Once you've determined how much ascension you need (if any) for your comp (remember to include some margin of error just in case), you can switch out all other ascension weapons for assault for faster clear (I used a high ascension grid for most floors though, 'cos I'm always scared that I'll make a stupid mistake somewhere and/or I want to eat some triggers on purpose just to test dmg levels for others)
      • Same deal with accessories, once you have enough defenses, can focus on offense
      • Non-essential himes can wipe during high dmg phase and revived when enemy dmg output goes back to more manageable levels, so focus single-target heals on soul/healers/cutters, buffers/debuffers/dmg dealers are less important in turtle runs (risky to let himes die, but if you're out of good turtling himes, you might need to take some risks)
        • Note that 16F does NOT have a 5 alive mission, so everyone except the soul can wipe if need be - that was my original plan for 16F as I could only guarantee Andro and Saraswati to survive if my dmg estimates were off
      • Your sub eidos do not have to match the team's element as you're not using 100%+ eidos, so just bring whatever eidos gives you the most helpful active. My personal favorites are Phul (barrier), Behemoth (cleanse), Nidhoggr/Yamata no Orochi/Vine (def down for faster clear), Hoder/Cerberus (guaranteed def down), any element MLB kaiser (pure stats stick, active is useless)
      • There's no time limit for tower (well, as long as you finish before server reset) so take breaks if you want. I turtled most floors in 2-3 sittings - turtling is slow but should be low stress, unlike a normal tower run where every debuff miss or consecutive enemy DATA or under/over-damaging messing with your rage control plans can give you a scare




    Quote Originally Posted by Geo View Post
    Congratz Dreamlitz for reaching 1st place (dunno if will drop after tonight). Did that Defender Seraph Hammer helped you? =P
    Thank you! Dropped to 11th as you can see, which is higher than I expected tbh, thought I'll just end around top 50 since my approach guarantees that I'll be 400-ish below perfect (I turtled from 13F-20F as my water grid is very bad - I only invest in light.) It took me over 7 hours to turtle 16F-20F, and I knew I wouldn't have enough time irl on the last day to do all that, so I did two floors every day, which artificially boosted my rankings for a while as most ppl waited for their best himes to come off cooldown.

    And the Seraph hammer turned out to be overkill, but it allowed me to comfortably eat triggers just to see how much dmg they did xD This will sound crazy, but it was actually kinda relaxing turtling some of these floors knowing that I have so much hp that I'll be fine even if I mess up (and I messed up quite a few times, like forgetting to activate a dragoon or dmg cut here and there.) So, overall, no regrets FLB-ing that hammer. I'll probably never use it again though =P

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    Game lag - at high turn counts, the game starts lagging noticeably, so reliance on debuffs can be dangerous - they tend to expire in a few turns when I go up to 100T+ even if I reload every attack animation
    That's a fucking feature?

    I've been puzzled why the fuck do my Water Rag soloes start to lag so horrendously after ~30 minutes. Not that I solo them because I want to, but often enough, nobody bothers to join until it is near dead. I thought it was a shitty raid server thing, but I guess it's some kind of memory leak on the server side. Jesus christ the fucking coding in this game.

  8. #158
    Uhm, so does this shit lags for everyone?

    Also, thanks for a very nice guide dream, prolly will use it in future.

  9. #159
    This turtle guide was good, and I understand you aimed it at newer players, but there are some Event Eidolons that could replace the SR Dragoons:

    Resheph (Wind Resist)
    Fleurety (Thunder Resist)
    Rahab (Thunder Resist - actually I used to think Rahab was COMPLETELY useless, because who would fight Thunder with Water? Turns out she substitutes the Wind SR Dragoon in a turtle build)

    I mean, using SSRs instead of SRs would mean less of a stats compromise.

    EDIT: Realized the SR Dragoons are used for the 3t/8t CD... And those Event Eidolons only provide 10% resistance at FLB while Dragoons give 20% at FLB and Kaisers 30% at 0LB. So yeah, bigger defenses in this game surely mean less offense - those Events Eidolons would be in a middle.
    Last edited by Geo; 02-11-2020 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #160

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    So, I'm more than slightly short on time. Like, look at my plan for F10:
    "Let's just bring 4x +100 burst Hime, full bursting sounds like a good plan"
    I have obviously not properly checked for any mistakes here.

    A proper post coming if I get a break and thus have the fucking time.

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