So, you know, I'm supposed to be updating the Encyclopedia about now. Or making my Light Tower plans. But this idea has been in my head for the last few days, so fuck it, let's make this thread instead of being productive!
Now, I'm not going to say that what I write here is objective. This is what the game has been like for the first 2.5 years in my eyes. You know what they say, "opinions are like assholes - everyone has one." Don't agree with something? Cool. Post your thoughts on the matter.
Now then, I'm going to split this post into multitudes of "eras", which overlap with each other. Because Kamihime can be a surprisingly complex game and there quite a few layers to it.
From a gameplay perspective
The Era of Sol, from launch (Feb 2017) to roughly June 2018?
So here is the thing about early Kamihime content. Bosses could only attack or do a special attack during their turn, but the latter was very rare. I can only think of (fucking) Medusa (April 2017). And (fucking) Medusa probably put the devs off from such behavior that we didn't see all that much of it.
So, this means that the only things that you really had to in Kamihime was Overdrive control. Bosses had normal Overdrives and Rage Overdrives, and that was it. That, by itself, made the game quite complex. Like we had bosses whose Overdrives were nothing special but Combo attacked a lot, and we had bosses like Python which has massive amounts of Orbs and whose Rage Overdrive WOULD kill you - so you had to pace yourself to NOT Rage her before Overdrive and kill her before the second Overdrive. Cool. But, we can really simplify what boss Overdrives did into three things:
1. The boss would deal damage.
2. The boss would buff itself (like Rahab).
3. The boss would debuff your team.
The thing is... Sol handled ALL of that. Lost HP? Sol could heal you. Boss would buff itself and threaten to one-shot you? Sol could Dispel that. Boss debuffs your Def? Or debuffs you with Doom (hi Dullahan!)? Sol can Cleanse that. If you had trouble with ANY content, you could just splash an off-element Sol into there, and bam. Problems be gone. It also didn't help that until January 2018, there no was no cap on Atk debuff. Sol would allow you to reach -60% Atk - sometimes even -70% with Jormungand! - cutting the amount of damage you take by a stupid margin. Remember, going from -40% to -70% means taking HALF damage from what you take at -40%, so more powerful than a Joan would be if she had 1 turn CD on her Damage Cut!!! And, it was technically possible to reach above -100% Atk with some meme builds... which would result on enemies HEALING you when attacking you. Yeah, that was a thing. Really.
Now, these days, the idea of bringing an off-element Hime is cringeworthy. But, you have to remember that back then, teams weren't highly synergistic. You had a few good Hime per element in the entire game, and if you had them, cool. But with the limited power levels per Hime back then and the limited pool of Hime, dropping your worst one for Sol was not a problem at all. However, as the Hime pool increased, synergy levels inside teams surged and combined with Hime powercreep, that slowly started to become a problem. Yet, that progress wasn't so fast to end Sol's Era. What did end it... was Triggers. I don't remember was Ult Water (June 2018) the first Trigger boss in the game, it could've also been Tiamat (April 2018) or Amaru (May 2018). I'm too lazy to check the Kitty threads of these events. But either way, this ushered Kamihime into:
The Era of Trigger bosses, from roughly June 2018 to probably forever
At the very least, Ult Water was one of the first Trigger bosses. Triggers enable bosses to do anything at any time, vastly expanding the horizons for how content works. In addition to the same variety in Overdrives, bosses can now get really pissed off if you debuff them, or do a special thing when they Rage, or do a special thing when they go low HP, or do a special thing when you use an ability of a specific color... or all of the above at the same time, if the devs really want to fuck with you.
Honestly? As long as it is not overdone (like at Ult Water), it's great. It keeps the content fresh as long as the devs bother to be creative with the boss abilities. The only problem is lack of communication. Like the current raid event boss Hoder basically ENDS YOU if you use any buffing abilities (yellow). But not many people even know that... because the game doesn't tell you WHY the Trigger happened! You either have to read it up in Kitty's thread or go to DMM wiki and hope that Google translate makes any kind of fucking sense out of the moonrunes. And that honestly sucks. But I don't think that any change is coming for that, so we'll just have to make do.
From a buff/debuff perspective
Early on, buffs were pathetic. I mean, if we look at the launch Hime, you have stuff like Shiva who gives +20% Assault to your team for 3/5 turns, OR Satan who gives -15% Def with 7/7 turns uptime. To make matters worse, Shiva's buff is Assault, which you can get from your Grid - ten SR weapons would get you to 130%. At this point, Shiva's buff gives you... 8% more damage output. And considering uptime, it's basically a 5% damage increase - and only gets worse as you get SSR weapons. Meanwhile, Satan is at least 15% more damage and if you're also running -20% B, it's 18% more damage. That's almost FOUR TIMES BETTER. And I'm being nice here and comparing Shiva to Satan rather than SSR Amon with her -25%! The point is, buffs in general were all like this - budgeted to fucking shit. They were simply not really part of the equation for a long, long, looooong time in Kamihime's perspective and thus you won't see me talking about them until the very end of this section.
The Era of -40% Def, from launch (Feb 2017) to Feb 2018
Despite debuffs being THE thing, Early on Kamihime simply didn't have very many debuffs available to you. Really, Souls were your best source for them thanks to Gawain's Ambush (-20% A) and Dartagnan's Sniper Shot (-20% B). Sure, there were SOME sources of reaching -50% such as Cthulhu (April 2017), Wrath Bow burst effect (November 2017) and SSR Tsukuyomi (December 2017), they were few and limited to specific Hime that you probably didn't have. And in the case of SSR Tsukuyomi, even limited to a single element!
But, one thing snuck into the game's Exchange Store without anyone noticing. And this post by some unregistered person changed everything.
Side note: You can read my initial reaction to it on the next page, post 2920. Ah yes, history gold right there!
The Era of Vine, from Feb 2018 to June 2018
Want to reach -50% Def? Don't worry baby, Vine is here to save the day. She came into the game with the addition of the Dark storyline (which remains the final storyline to this day even on DMM I believe), but nobody noticed. Since all the previous SR Eidolons from the storyline were shit. But Vine? This baby had -10% Def Eidolon/weapon frame and a hitrate to back it up! NEVER missing with VoF up and almost never even without. And even available to EVERYONE! Sure, the base stats were sorely lacking, but going from -40% to -50% Def was a whopping 16% increase. And that makes all the difference.
In addition to more Hime who can help reach that elusive -50% were coming out (such as Mars (March 2018), Thanatos (April 2018) and Mammon (June 2018)) - they might not have the same availability like Vine did, but they were there - but what ended Vine's era was Herc's Axe (combined with Herc buffs that turned her into a beast), and by June 2018 not all Ults were even out yet. So honestly, I'm cutting this era short by quite a lot. In reality, it was a lot longer.
Regardless, the game moved on to:
The Era of -50%, from June 2018 to forever?
Hercules with her Soul weapon finally gave everyone relatively easy access to -50% Def. All you need is 120 Regalia and you can have -25% Def. Back then you could trade 20 Regalia per month from Fragments, so even newbies could gain 127 Regalia per month by hosting and being carried by a Union mate (30*3 Regalia from Host bonus = 90, 30*9 Fragments from Vice MVP = 270 Fragments, translates into 100 for 5 each = 20 and 170 for 10 each = 17, so 90+20+17 per month = 127!). And a mere month is NOT a long time in Kamihime.
Since Herc's Axe was -25% and Vine was -10%, and both being the same frame, Vine was starting to become obsolete. Rest in piece, buddy. You did good, you did really good.
And ever since, you should basically always run -50% Def teams. All you need is Hercules and one or two Hime. Sure there are exceptions, like MVP hunting raid teams, but.
And then finally... let's have a side note about buffs.
As time progresses, there has been some serious power creep with Hime. Now, sure, debuffs have gained SOME powercreep as well. There are multiple -30% Def Hime now, but ALL of them are for their own element only. But more important, buffs have been gaining some serious fucking shit lately. For example, my Shiva example up above? Shiva's Awakening recently buffed her to +30% Assault +20% Elemental +Crit (like 25% chance of +25% damage or something). Sure that's still 3/5 uptime, but that's still wayyyy more in line with debuffs now. In addition, one thing I've noticed is that buffs from Bursting are a thing now, and these are budgeted wayyyy wrong. For example, Cu Awakened gets a +45%ish Triple buff for 3 turns after Burst. And each Triple attack gives her 10% Special for 10 turns. Fast Wind teams can Burst every 3-4 turns I'd say, which kinda makes... Cu absolutely insane! And she's not the only one. Honestly, Burst effects are basically budgeted as if the game was still about needing 8 turns per Full Burst, but even Tiara Set Bonus has made that a thing of ancient history.
In the future, I'm pretty sure that the game will keep powercreeping buffs. And most importantly, keep introducing extremely powerful Burst buffs. Maybe if I were to remake this post around the 3.5 years marker (where DMM is today), I'd need to cut off the "Era of -50%" into "Era of buffs" at some point. For now though, I don't see a reason for it.
From a Soul perspective
The Era of Harmony, from launch (Feb 2017) to June 2018
In a gacha game that wants to be serious, how do you ensure that players have at least basic tools on their hands? Like buffs, or debuffs, or heals, or damage cuts, or... any tools, really? When you can't rely on players have any specific Hime, yet you want to give them CHOICES and OPTIONS so that they can actually PLAY the game (I'm looking at you, Otogi)? In other words, let's talk about Souls - the one thing that probably hooked me into Kamihime.
As I mentioned previously, debuffs were the name of the game and Souls were your primary source of them. Sure, if you had the perfect team, you probably didn't need them for those. But let's face it, most people didn't have perfect teams back then and still don't today!
And thus, the most likely Souls to be run were Gawain (yes, T2 Soul!) with Sniper Shot, or Dartagnan with Ambush. Both of whom would reach -40% Def by themselves. If you had a Hime with a strong A or B debuff, you could run... well, basically anyone and compliment that one with Ambush or Sniper Shot. Mordred was a popular choice due to having BP and also VoF, but Joan saw plenty of use as well. Hell, there was even a (short) time period where people would run (Gilgamesh/)Siegfried and try snipe MVP in event Raids by slamming a big one during Stun. Cassiopeia also saw plenty of use thanks to her Dispel, while Andromeda wasn't used all that much - why run her when you can run Cass with Dispel AND a debuff? Really, the only Soul tree that didn't any use was Solomon, due to being a piece of useless shit.
Morgan was added in November 2017, and didn't see much use. Hell, Morgan only sees use today in some Berserk meme builds, which can be powerful but require her Soul weapon and a proper team to support it. Hercules was Added to Nutaku in December 2017, and was a useless piece of garbage - with her weak self-buffs with 3/7 turn uptimes and her weak nuke (if I remember right), she was literally only there for you to get some Master bonuses from. Shingen entered the fray in January 2018 and was instantly a big hit. Provisional Forest was a huge game changer and allowed for some serious spike damage. But, Shingen couldn't reliably use this ability on her own - she needed help from the team. +5 burst was all that was required and Shingen could safely Burst along with the team. This limitation meant that Shingen didn't entirely overtake the meta, and there was a still wide range of different Souls being used in the game.
This is what I mean by "Era of Harmony" - with the few exceptions of useless pieces of shit like Solomon and Hercules, all Soul trees were seeing use. Sure, Siegs were rare and Morgan's niche was extremely small, but even without them that's still 6/10 Soul trees in use. Things started to change in March 2018 with the introduction of Soul weapons. Gawain was the first victim, since right off the bat Dartagnan with Ambush could now provide -50% Def just by herself! Sure it was a HP weapon, but that was still serious shit at the time. What truly ended the Era of Harmony however... was Hercules' Soul weapon.
The Era of Hercules and Shingen, from June 2018 to August 2020?
Some time before this (past Slashley, why the fuck did you not write that exact date down?), Herc got some serious reworking. Her buffs were increased by a ton and their uptime was increased to 5/7 turns. And I think her now iconic nuke was notably buffed as well, though I forget did they increase the damage cap or scaling per buff (past Slashley, why the fuck did you not write that shit down?) or... well, whatever. This alone made her perfectly viable and she joined the Age of Harmony for a short time, but what broke the camel's back... was her Axe. Now, before this, all Soul weapons basically followed a simple rule: HP weapons have good effects, but offensive weapons are generally better despite having a shitty effect. Hercules however... got it the other way around. Her GOOD ability was in the OFFENSIVE weapon. AND there was that mother. Fucking. -25% Fucking. Def. Debuff. On that fucking thing as well. So let's have a look at this:
1. Massive buffs to her abilities.
2. Offensive Soul weapon has good ability.
3. Extremely strong Def debuff on Burst.
Now, if you were a sensible game developer, you'd go "Hmm... pick one!"
Any single one of these would've been enough to bring Hercules to the Era of Harmony, but no, they went and gave Hercules ALL FUCKING THREE. As such, Hercules very quickly ended the one Era and just replaced everything. It was now Hercules, Hercules, Hercules. Hell, there wasn't any reason to run Shingen anymore, since Herc's Axe allowed her to use PF without any help from the team! AND still providing a motherfucking Debuff thanks to her Axe!
In August 2018, Shingen and Morgan got their Soul weapons, and they also got their offensive Soul weapons to be the better ability. Morgan became much more viable, but sadly, the Era of Harmony was long over and she had no chance to compete with Hercules. Shingen, however, now no longer needed the help of her team to make use out of PF. This meant that Shingen started to show up a bit, generally being more team focused and having a EX slot free while still bringing PF.
February 2019 brought forth some serious changes, with the MP system. Souls could now be upgraded. The winners of this change? Solomon! She was now actually good and would certainly have joined the fray if the Era of Harmony was still a thing, but it was far too late for that. So she continues to be reduced to being just a Tower slave, something she was already doing since the first Tower event in December 2018. The second winner? Shingen. Thanks to Encourage Inspiration, Shingen's EX slot could now hold an extremely powerful boost to the team rather than a debuff. This DOES mean that the team has to provide the -50% Def debuffs entirely. But as this is already 2019, the options for that from Hime have increased drastically - even some SR Hime had C frames or Elem Res- buffs at this point.
So, the point where we are currently? It's just Hercules for basically everyone, and the very perfected teams use Shingen who has higher potential, IF your team can support her. Which I think is dumb. Age of Harmony was just much more interesting than "Oh, Hercules goes into EVERY TEAM LUL!!1"
Anyway, T4 Souls are coming up later. All of them are really powerful, but thanks to their extreme cost, from the first batch you only want T4 Solomon. Second batch is coming August 2020-ish, containing T4 Hercules and especially T4 Shingen who are ludicrously strong and will most likely utterly dominate the meta... ... IF you can afford them. Good luck with that! The requirements for that shit is really, really, REALLY DUMB!
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From a Events perspective
I... don't actually have much to say about this. This has been kinda covered already by the Sol section. Just to recap:
The game started with Advents, then soon came up with Raids. Then re-printed Advents a lot (especially on Nutaku, since they needed to get the game in sync with the DMM release so that we wouldn't get x-mas events in November). The first Union event happened in July 2017, and the first Union event with actual rewards in it happened in September 2017. Until October 2017 you needed to find one SSR weapon and one SSR Eidolon from Raid Gacha Tickets, which SUCKED. April 2018 saw a giant nerf to Raid requirements, making them WAY less grindy than before. June 2018 saw a giant nerf to Advent requirements, making them WAYYYY less grindy. Bi-monthly Tower events started December 2018. Skill Checker-kun events started to roll in August 2019. In the future, guessing dates: Final Union Demon event in December 2019, first Angel Union event (warning! Shitty rewards!) and first Labyrinth event in January 2020 (warning! The first one will be GRINDYYYYY!).
December 2017 brought forth the first "permanent event", Accessory Quests. March 2018 brought the first of Ultimate Disaster (then called "Ragnarok" thanks to some serious short-sightedness from the devs). Guild Orders started to run in August 2018. AQ5 came in December 2018. April 2019 brought the first real Ragnarok Disasters. More permanent events are coming up, to name a few with guesses to their implementation: first Olympia raids and AQ6 October 2019, Epic Quests (old Raid events) in November 2019, AQ7 in December 2019.
From a Grid perspective
The Era of 16%, from launch (Feb 2017) to November 2017
SSR Weapons basically either had 16% HP (and were useless) or 16% Assault. Simple, but boring and really shitty if you had like two months of events with HP weapons in a row. Yes, that fucking happened. No, nobody was happy.
And yes, Prides were added into the game somewhere in there, but they're effectively Assault weapons, so no need to mention specifics.
The goal at this point was to have 10x SSR Assault weapons in your Grid, so 160% Assault. Not that anyone but omega whales reached that.
The Era of 23%, from November 2017 to June 2018
Sphinx brought the first dual-skill weapon to everyone, paving way to the glorious era of dual-skill weapons with her 13% Assault AND 10% HP weapon. Wow! I believe there HAD been some dual-skills before - as Hime release weapons. But since those weren't available to all, it wasn't such a hallmark.
The goal at this point was to have 10x SSR Assault/HP weapons in your Grid, so 130% Assault and 100% HP. Not that anyone but omega whales reached that.
The Era of "what the fuck is this shit?", from June 2018 to September 2018
At this point, Illuyankas introduced to us lots of new things that can be in our weapons - not just Assault or Pride or HP, but also wonderful things like Elaborate - the one thing worse than a fucking full HP weapon! The devs had realized that if they kept giving us good weapons, things would soon get pretty stale. So, it was time to dilute the pool with garbage!
The goal at this point was still to have 9x SSR Assault/HP weapons in your Grid, so 117% Assault and 90% HP, and one Soul weapon. Not that anyone but omega whales reached that.
Well, it wasn't ALL bad news. Exceed also came out of this, increasing Burst damage cap from 1m to 2m... ... if you could somehow get your hands on those weapons. Which you didn't. Until...
The Era of FLBs, from September 2018 to forever?
Phoenix reprint introduced FLBs to us, increasing the goal to 21% Assault and 15% HP per weapon. And more importantly... Union events now started to give Exceed weapons. And they no longer will after Angel Union events start, because the devs realized that they were giving out too much good shit. So if you didn't play the game when the Demon Union events ran with Exceed weapons, GET FUCKED SON.
So the ultimate goal now was 9x FLB Assault/HP/Exceed weapons, and one Soul weapon. Thus 189% Assault and 90-120% HP, with 1-3 Exceeds. This certainly isn't the ultimate, ULTIMATE goal since there are fun stuff like triple skill weapons too, or double Assault weapons. These are pretty much Hime exclusive weapons, but thanks to Tower events, bricks can be used. In short, there is way, WAY more variation in Grids now, which is good.
And finally, as a subnote (because they DON'T deserve any better!) are Phantom weapons which you could get - at a very low chance - since April 2019. So the ultimate, ULTIMATE goal is to have a 8x FLB Assault/HP/Exceed weapons of Lance/Hammer/Glaive/Bow type, all of them being triple skills or at least double Assault. And then one Phantom weapon of that type and one Soul weapon. Good luck with that, buddy.
What does the future hold?
Honestly, we're reaching a point in Kamihime where the DMM devs clearly cut back on production values. We have been getting and are going to be getting a lot more "continuous content" like AQs and GOs which we need to farm ad-infinitum, rather than weekly events. Those will still roll around, though, at a slightly slower pace it seems. Also, expect way more Limited Edition Hime, as the majority of the upcoming Hime are just new versions of the Hime we already have. Between now and January 2020 - including the current Fire Frey - there are 11 SSR Hime coming up. Out of which SEVEN are Limited. SIX are new versions of already existing Hime. And did I mention that soon, we won't have new Hime whenever a new event starts? Yeah, those are being toned down to every 1st and 15th of each month. No more, no less.
With less new Hime designs and less Hime in general, production values have clearly been cut. Which is worrisome. Fear not though, I'm sure that all of those new Hime will be OP as fuck. Oh wait, since in Nutaku we don't get new Hime with Jewels, I guess that's a reason to fear. After all, in the upcoming year, all the upgrades that we have coming are Olympia raids (providing us with a pretty strong new main Eidolon for all elements, assuming you don't have a P2W Eidolon for that element) and T4 Souls. That is if you can afford those T4 Souls, because FUCK YOU.
So yeah. The future of Kamihime does worry me. If you look at the Grid section, you'll notice that slowly but surely Grids made players more and more powerful over the past 2.5 years - veterans are now reaching full event FLB Grids across the board (except Fire, because fuck Fire). However, the main source of new power from now on - the new Hime - are effectively cut off from us in Nutaku. That's... not good.
It also doesn't help how Kamihime has a serious issue with new blood. Seriously, the game HINGES on you either having played for two years now, OR having to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a proper Grid. That does NOT invite new people into the game. There seriously NEEDS to be some SERIOUS catch-up mechanics, and although DMM has implemented some over the past year (our upcoming year, such as Epic Quests) they simply are NOT anywhere near enough.
So yeah. That's my take of the last 2.5 years. Honestly? I could've written a lot more. Like, I didn't even touch Gacha changes, or how Miracle Tickets changed the game. I wonder what else did I not mention?
And if you've actually read all of that... well, good job? All purchases are final, no refunds.
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Hybrid View
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Kamihime - the journey of the first 2.5 years
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Interesting read + nostalgia. Really gives you the feeling that Kamipro is getting old. I'll be switching over to Unitia if it ever gets a translation.
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i did read that from beginning to end. well done bro.
i m not too concerned about future, since KHP is still a highly ranked game in Japan. so developments will continue.
in regards to catchup mechanic, it seems like the devs are rolling out extremely high requirements on initial release, then either nerf the requirement or buff the drop rates to help newer players catch up. also they are adding more shops and more items in those shops, so catching up is a lot easier i think. that doesnt necessarily mean reaching par - but getting a viable wpn grid is now a matter of just grinding enuf mats.
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Really interesting to me. I’ve been in since Nutaku-launch, but completely half-assed until DraPro died, end of last year. I have a maxed out Vine, all element Herc weapons, at least 1 exceed for each element and am slowly moving towards Shingen bows in all elements. So I’ve never quite been using the meta, as I have never quite caught up to the leading edge, but I’ve been aware of some of the more recent history.
What you’ve put here though goes into so much more detail. I remember the early trigger bosses, and not understanding why I was being wrecked until finding a post here. Honestly the way they run this game, it is like there are two games - the one for people who want to deduce wtf the bosses do, and the rest of us who need to trawl out of game resources to get a clue. I’m fine with that tbh, reading posts here keeps me more engaged in the game, especially since I’m not on Discord for KH.
And that’s always been an odd factor for me in KH. Social tools here are absolute bare bones. Sure, everybody has always used external stuff even on games that support exists for chat etc, but newbie players often only use the built in stuff. Unions who don’t have a leader prepared to maintain external content just die. I doubt that is going to change, but I wonder what the design decision on that was.
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1) about labyrinth event - don't forget, that labyrinth gives 3 ssr weapons, 2 garbage and 3-rd - triple skill flb-able, next labyrinth (october? will be less grindy + auto progress should be enabled)I'm looking at you, 350 story drops, 150 SR books, 80 SSR books, 10 Advent Rag Cores, 4m Gems, 150 T3 Crystals, 1050 T4 Crystals, 1500 T2 Cores, 1800 Fangs, 900 Regalia, 300 Magnas, 300 Olympia Globes, 15 Orihalcums, 7 Dragon Eye, 3000 Eidolon Orbs, 3000 Soul Points and... 4000 Och raids (coming April 2020). Not sure about the Och raids. But yeah. HAVE. FUN. WITH. THAT. This is per Soul, if getting all six elements.
2) to get t4 soul you must do 4 fixed quests + 5-th is soul weapon upgrade, you need to do it once to get a soul, other weapons are optional. To get a soul you need a 1m gems, 7x50 story items (wait for 1/2 ap event and spend a day for it), 10 advent orbs, 30 sr books, 20 ssr books, 3k eydo orbs, 6x150 fangs, 150 t3 crystals ,2 books (100 pages each), 15 ori (you can easy trade 20 per month for shards + go+ many other sources), 150 t4 crystals (worth nothing after raid rework, nutaku will get it this winter), 250x6 t2 idea cores (this and fangs are most terrifying things in this grindfest), 1 dragon orb, 6x150 regalas. For weapon upgrade you need a soul weapon 125/20 (120 regalias), 3 books, 500 sp/hsp, 1 dragon orb, 20 sr books, 10 ssr books, 150 fangs, 50 ragnarok items, 50 olympia items, 500k gems. Result - flb-ed t4 soul weapon, lvl/slvl are set to 1, + value is carried over, and this:
You don't need to have soul weapons for each element, maybe sometimes later.
About t4 souls- it's my personal opinion, but if you use t3 Shingen, t4 should be a first priority after she wil be released in second wave. T4 Herc didn't impressed me much, Joan and Andy became much, much stronger, so if you need them - you will not regret. I would say, that Asclepius should be second/ third soul. About damagers - I like Medea very much (t4 Solomon), much more then t4 Herc (she has elem resist debuff if you can't reach a cap). Wave 1 - Arthur, Joan, Andy, Solomon, Sieg. Wave 2 - the rest. And yes, you will never use t3 souls after unlock of t4 ones. So prepare to grind a lot and try to collect as many mats as possible nowdays.
P.S. You forgot about 1 more milestone that changed the game - tiara sets, they are so absurdly strong.
p.p.s. t4 soul with no relic weapon >> t3 with relic. For example, Solomon's s1 is 450-500% nuke, Medea's is 1000%, Medea's 6 element nuke becomes aoe, or if we should look at Shingen, t3 buff is 2/8 (25% uptime) of 15 data/10 tata, t4 has 3/7 (42% uptime) of 25% data/15% tata/30% bg gain up, or t4's PF doesn't consume bg so we have no problem with FB etc. And I didn't mentioned that t4 souls have 3 variants of s2 and s3 so DMM lives in t4 souls era now (mainly t4 Shingen, then Andy, then Solomon, sometimes Joan, other are rarely/never seen in raids).Last edited by Mraktar; 09-30-2019 at 07:10 AM.
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DMM has just added weekly rotating Advents, starting with Typhon.
also don't knock Epic Raids, with it's help i have full SSR dark/water grids now and fire is pretty close, Dark is fully leveled/slvled/+99 only lacking FLB weaps, not bad for 6 months without using jewel gatcha or tix."He's just this guy y'know."
"What happens if i press this button?"
"This must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays"
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I do understand your rationale about not mentioning the p2w Eidolons, as it is not under the player's control.
But then, everybody will get Hercules. Eventually. So I feel the toptier meta is more about whoever got the P2W than about who built the best grid or unlocked a certain Soul.
About the dude who spent $ 1.000,00 on this game... Well I will just say KamiPro is like a TCG. One is better off purchasing a single card (Miracle Ticket) than a box of boosters (thousands of dollars on Gacha). I will wait until the "Super MT" that allows us to grab a p2w is available before spending on this game.
Actually, maybe I will spend some on the "Ctulhu is the only SSR", in the hopes of not spending $ 1.000,00 for her... Dunno.
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Actually, I think you may be overestimating the power of P2W eidos relative to grid. Everyone can get 45% event eidos and use a 100% friend (if you don't have 100% friends, 'reroll' your friend list until you get one for competitive stuff like tower.) 30% from soul weapon, so the difference between owning and not owning a P2W is about 20% difference in dmg. The difference between a 'meta' and non-meta grid can be much greater depending on how you define those terms, so I'll just point out the following rough observations:
Originally Posted by Geo
- FLB-ing a weapon typically boosts its stats by around 10%, its assault by 30%+ (e.g. 21% vs 16% for large assault) and adds an entirely new skill, so going from full SSR to full FLB gives you enormous boosts in dmg and/or survivability
- Typical hime weapons have stats roughly 15%-20% higher than event weapons and may also have triple skills upon FLB, so if you go from full f2p grid to full whale grid, it is another noticeable jump in power
- Phantom grid of type matching the preference of your offensive himes/souls (e.g. for light it's lance or glaive, since Shingen, Lugh and Tish are lance users, and Hector, Iris, Vishnu are glaive users) is another noticeable boost in power (exact numbers are hard to calculate 'cos it depends on what you had to give up to make the grid and which himes you have.)
Anyway, tl;dr version is that having a well-planned grid is worth a lot more than a P2W eido. P2W eido is still a big deal, but you need a lot more than that if you're aiming for leader boards or something.
I recently got my first P2W and MLB-ed her right away, but I'm still nowhere near being able to outrace the top tier players for MVP in rags - my Shingen on manual lost to someone's Andro on AAB... Noodle on that a bit and think about how big a difference the grid must be making for that to be possible (for reference, I had 2 hime FLB and 4 event FLB in my grid, no phantom - not meta but not too terrible I think?)
The game is still plenty fun to me even if I can't outrace ppl though. This game is a long grind, so hopefully ppl are at least enjoying the journey of getting stronger over time and finding many fun moments like MVP-sniping top tier players while they're afk or got Niked =)
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You make it sound like 20% difference in damage output is a small thing. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
It is not.
How much more Assault do you need for a 20% boost once you have 9*16% = 144% Assault? Because you need to include base, the answer is you need to reach 205% Assault. Which you cannot reach even if you FLB'd ALL of those nine weapons, as 9*21% = 189% Assault. The only way it can be done is if you got TWO double Assault weapons in those nine FLBs.
So yeah, 20% is by no means a joke. It's a vast and huge bridge that one simply cannot cross.
EDIT: Oh hey, I just realized I calculated what it takes to drop 20% damage, not what it takes to increase by 20%. The actual number is ~193%. The point still stands though, you need ONE double Assault out of 9 FLBs to reach that gain!Eeeeexcept that you're looking at it wrong. EVERYONE gets a good Grid, it simply takes a long, long time. Even longer if you started later in the game because fuck you, you don't deserve double FLB weapons from early Advents. Or good weapons at all from Union events now. Nonetheless, eventually, EVENTUALLY you will get a good Grid. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
But eventually? Eventually, you are NOT guaranteed to find a P2W Eidolon. Ever. Are you likely to, if you play the game for many years? Yes. Are you guaranteed to get one? Not by a long shot.
And sure, DMM lately sold the old ones (the ones with the way shittier on-use (except Hraes) and notably less %), but it's a whopping 100 bucks. That's not something everyone can drop on a game.Last edited by Slashley; 10-02-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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I didn't mean to make it sound like it's no big deal, but I stand by my statement that the grid matters more: Originally Posted by Slashley
FLB-ing increases your base stats as well, so if half your atk comes from your weapons, a 10% increase from base stats from FLB-ing all your weapons is a 5% increase in dmg - this will be multiplicative with the additional assault you get (as well as exceed and vigor.) The 205% assault (I actually got 193% but doesn't really matter) becomes around 179% to 190% depending on how you do your calc, which technically is feasible with full FLB. Also, assault isn't everything. Don't ignore things like exceed and vigor that might come as a second skill on FLB, exceed in particular matters a lot in late game when everyone has tiara sets and therefore short burst cycles. You should see a big change in dmg if you try doing dummy with and without exceed weapons (this isn't just about hitting cap either, exceed acts as a separate multiplier such that a single large FLB exceed boosts your burst dmg by 10%-ish if you're not using PF.)
Going from full SSR to full FLB grid should boost your dmg by 20%-ish just from base stats and assault gain, and much more when you include exceed and vigor even if we ignore endurance skills like defender and ascension. Put differently, someone with P2W eido with only a full SSR grid is not gonna be able to compete with a vet with a 45% eido but has a full or near-full FLB grid, even if they're all event FLBs and no phantoms.
Actually, if we're talking about 'meta' grids, you most certainly are NOT guaranteed to end up with a 'meta' grid without paying since most of them involve bricking many dupes of certain hime or even draconic eye weapons. If we're talking about just a full FLB grid, sure, but everyone can also eventually farm the guardian eido, which can be quite powerful with a full FLB grid, meta or not. Originally Posted by Slashley
Game progression isn't hinged on whether you have a P2W or not though, it just raises your ceiling and how quickly you can clear stuff, but that is true with any SSR you draw - if you draw good ones that work well together, you're suddenly more powerful. For complete f2p, you're never guaranteed any himes either regardless of how long you play (heck, even whales aren't guaranteed all the best himes, the number of mtix is limited after all.)
That's the cost of 2 mtix for something that is arguably more valuable than 2 mtix though. Yes, that is expensive for a lot of people but keeping up with the meta for a lot of games can get pretty expensive, not just KH. If you just want to continually improve your teams though, f2p is still viable. Originally Posted by Slashley
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