Thread: Help Request: Team

i see thanks to both of you, i'll keep that in mind when using elva.

Originally Posted by kayfabe

Yeah, Memento is one of those cases where her stat screen doesn't tell the whole story--her attack speed is comically slow so she ends up bringing very little to the table in dps. Plus, it must be understood that even if she did witch level dps it still wouldn't be that impressive without the slow effect or heavy token use. Witches only get by because they're so cheap to deploy and the good ones bring a nice smattering of utility to the table--slows are nice on maps where you'd rather shoot the fatties than tank them, Yuyu can greatly ease wall of magic and Adele brings a global buff to the table. Just smacking things around like Cloris is a quick trip to the bench.



It depends on how you look at it/where you draw the line since with current content the role of off-tank is typically far less intense than that of primary tank. I often get away with using a CC50 Garrett in that role and many people understandably consider the poor dude's attribute distribution to be a dumpster fire. Basically, tanking is often about reaching certain thresholds in Aigis War and 3k health/450+ armor is about where units become sturdy enough to throw down with a pissed off Mummy King. Honestly, I think the biggest argument against considering Elva for a secondary tank role is that so much of her durability gain comes only after being Awakened. That's a big investment for a role that can often be just barely be filled by Leeanne. She's kind of in the same boat as Momiji--more viable/bulky than people often imply but not really a standout, either. At least her skill is better though.

I hate Cloris, to me she's pretty much useless with Yuyu, Adele and Despara around, since like you said she gets nothing special (assassination chance we all know is unreliable, Yuyu is cheaper with higher attack that you can count on and Range Up helps with maps like War of Magic, and Adele and Despara... not even close.

Good point on the durability thresholds, and I DID mention that the need for a 2nd legit tank is rare. Using her as an offensive off-tank is reasonable in most cases. The AW durability comes from the Paladin class passive, right? Though to be fair, replacing Leanne with her means you don't need ranged support to actually kill said mobs lol. Like you say, it depends on if you're thinking of her as a tank (which she isn't) or an off-tank with more offense than most units that might be used as such (like Leanne)

The passive helps but I mostly meant the raw stat upgrade, particularly that 49% increase in Defense. Dark Knights and Heavy Armor both get hit with UP increases post Awakening but they do appear to get an extra half scoop of stats in exchange. It's part of why I've been one of the people who favors Awakening Bernice before Iris--the latter unit is deployed more often but her benefit from Awakening is somewhat marginal compared to the boosts tank classes get. You don't always need bulky tanks but when you do they really make their presence felt.

Originally Posted by kayfabe

The passive helps but I mostly meant the raw stat upgrade, particularly that 49% increase in Defense. Dark Knights and Heavy Armor both get hit with UP increases post Awakening but they do appear to get an extra half scoop of stats in exchange. It's part of why I've been one of the people who favors Awakening Bernice before Iris--the latter unit is deployed more often but her benefit from Awakening is somewhat marginal compared to the boosts tank classes get. You don't always need bulky tanks but when you do they really make their presence felt.

Ah, yeah, looking at her stats, she loses 3 defense when she AW but at AW90 she's up by 151 points, with 613 extra HP to go with it.
As for AW Iris, her "heal-bomb" is nice but beyond that the stat gap is minimal until she gets to really high levels after AW, so I can see AW HAs first. It should be noted that for HAs though, they really NEED that extra defense since they pick up an extra block as well.

well for now she is a 2-block dmg-tank :3

Originally Posted by kayfabe

The passive helps but I mostly meant the raw stat upgrade, particularly that 49% increase in Defense. Dark Knights and Heavy Armor both get hit with UP increases post Awakening but they do appear to get an extra half scoop of stats in exchange. It's part of why I've been one of the people who favors Awakening Bernice before Iris--the latter unit is deployed more often but her benefit from Awakening is somewhat marginal compared to the boosts tank classes get. You don't always need bulky tanks but when you do they really make their presence felt.

"The Passive helps" is a cute say for gaining (propably) 230 defence capped at 50% hp, from a passive. Sure i get what u mean but its half of her pay, the other half her raw stat gain. And in all honesty. Awakining is long enough around at nutaku aigis already that awakening isnt that much a deal to do anymore once ur core HAT and maybe sherry is awakened.
Me myself is a free player that plays since 4 months and im at a maxcc team with 6 AW Units leveled to 53(gold) 61(plat) and i still have 10 plat armors laying around from the last 2-3 events. Just dont have enough fairys. Im just always waiting for the DCs for awakening fairys pretty much.

Originally Posted by Nero010

"The Passive helps" is a cute say for gaining (propably) 230 defence capped at 50% hp, from a passive. Sure i get what u mean but its half of her pay, the other half her raw stat gain. And in all honesty. Awakining is long enough around at nutaku aigis already that awakening isnt that much a deal to do anymore once ur core HAT and maybe sherry is awakened.
Me myself is a free player that plays since 4 months and im at a maxcc team with 6 AW Units leveled to 53(gold) 61(plat) and i still have 10 plat armors laying around from the last 2-3 events. Just dont have enough fairys. Im just always waiting for the DCs for awakening fairys pretty much.

The issue with passives like those of Paladins and Avengers is the fact that heal support will continually push them out of their buffed state, but if you don't give them heal support they'll die (Avengers much sooner than Paladins, obviously). Thus they are generally in their buffed state only for like 20% of the time tops (you could find ways to heal them more slowly but quickly enough they're not likely to die, such as regeneration from AW Sophie/Farne, but that's not as accessible nor reliable). So the boost is huge while it is there, it's just not there very often.

Plus, without the extra defense she gets from Awakening in the first place the passive bonus would be considerably smaller on top of being conditional. Anyway, the passive isn't bad at all compared to what many characters get, it's just hard to quantify because it's effectively like having extra sustain--it conditionally increases Elva's longevity but in a manner that doesn't impact her peak effective health. It's yet another thing that encourages people to think of her as an off-tank/bulky dps rather than an adamantium doorstop--she's better at hanging in there and murdering trash/fast attackers with minimal support than she is at staying in on one hit knockout artists.

Originally Posted by kayfabe

Plus, without the extra defense she gets from Awakening in the first place the passive bonus would be considerably smaller on top of being conditional. Anyway, the passive isn't bad at all compared to what many characters get, it's just hard to quantify because it's effectively like having extra sustain--it conditionally increases Elva's longevity but in a manner that doesn't impact her peak effective health. It's yet another thing that encourages people to think of her as an off-tank/bulky dps rather than an adamantium doorstop--she's better at hanging in there and murdering trash/fast attackers with minimal support than she is at staying in on one hit knockout artists.

There you go! That's what I was getting at, stated much more cleanly!
Yeah, due to needing to be under a threshold (50% I believe) she fails against those ridiculous 5k attack enemies so she's no super-tank but "bulky dps"... I like that way of putting it =D
And the defense increase from AW certainly does make the passive bonus MUCH more worthy of mention, even if she's still no proper tank.

Of course shes not a tank and i never ever looked at her as one. Makes no sense. I think of her passive differently and can only tell everyone to look at it this way instat how u did it until now. Your right that she wont be having this extra defence for long. The thing is... stats dont matter if u dont need them. 1500 Defence is awesome. Do we need it? No. So it actualy isnt even awesome (yet).
What do we want for a frontline fighter? That they dont die. How does elva achiev not to die? When her HP drop (even if just by 10% from one hit) her defense increases. As lower her health gets (as more dangerous the situation gets) as more she can take UNTIL the healer can heal her up again. Its not about having monster stats. Its about not dieing until ur healer can heal u again. Thus reducing the damage you take by pretty huge amount once u get lower makes it a lot easier for the healer to heal up the unit again. The damage Elva recievescan be much easier outhealed then for other duelists who would die because the healer cant outheal the damage and you watch your duelist drop 200hp with every hit that your healer cannot compansate. While Elva in those situations gets befier, takes less damage, gets healed up by more then she took and can continue fighting. It makes her a lot more DURABLE. Not a Tank whos supposed to just take god like strikes, shes never been build for that. Like u say, if the boost is there its huge, its just not there very often - it is always there when she needs it.
She seems to suite her role pretty well on paper if you think about it.