Thread: Starter Pack Value

to be fair the game doesn't have that many good heavies outside of the 2 blacks , gellius and bernice which is a gold.

Originally Posted by lolix

to be fair the game doesn't have that many good heavies outside of the 2 blacks , gellius and bernice which is a gold.

Because other classes totally have a ton more useful units outside of the odd black or two plus some plat and gold :P

Jokes aside, Alicia is a nice unit. Lacks some block if you need a blocker, but a solid tanky unit for most purposes.

You will get a free copy of Viera later so i would not put her at a high prio to get. People like me, who have a quite solid army, might want to look at CRing her though, since her eventual SAW turns her into a beast. Chydis is definitely a solid choice and if you have no other ninja, Hien is pretty nice (nothing to really go for asap though).

Edit:
And Chydis is a healer. Unless you are very lucky and get Camilla AND Elyse from the gacha, Chydis is your best choice.

Edit2:
I would also stress the fact that you're still quite early into the game. Most plat+ units WILL eventually make their difference from gold and silver units heard once they get some levels and they get some affection items. What is enough now won't necessarily be enough later.

Heck, the latest story map i needed 3 tanky units that could survive at least a 5,2k hit, along with healers to heal all 3 of them up before the next hit came in, to give you a perspective. Silvers and golds cannot do that :P

i know what u mean. Between cornelia which i've managed to SAW and anya , i rarely use heavies anymore for the simple fact that they are outdated. And while i do understand that this are 2 ultra defensive blacks , i still don't understand why heavy armors aren't the game's ultimate tanks. They should be. That's literally their role in the game. The fact that they aren't even the best at their role is rather bullshit.....

Originally Posted by Tenhou

ng with healers to heal all 3 of them up before the next hit came in, to give you a perspective. Silvers and golds cannot do that :P

Yep, and DPS units have their own stat checks to deal with too. Basically, raw power in itself can make a unit a lot more versatile. For example, Soma is fine when you're a newbie but she'll never be good at cracking through 400+ armor units thanks to her silver stats and lack of an attack modifier. By contrast Spica can eventually hit 1k+ damage per shot and that makes her a viable option against a much wider array of targets.

Originally Posted by lolix

The fact that they aren't even the best at their role is rather bullshit

The problem is that tanking is very binary and that makes Gellius a problematic template for what the class should look like. You can either take the hit or you can't, and since Gellius style heavy armors can do literally nothing else but act as a door stop their only virtue lies in surviving things that other classes can't. That's troublesome because Aigis war has enough different tanky units now that "Gellius style or GTFO" hits me as an even worse option than letting heavies stagnate. It'll grind some people's gears, but the patched SAW Deine/Diina model where Heavies do more than just take haymakers to the face is probably the better way forward than making heavies even more turtle-y. Personally, my big hope is that the HA Second Awakening has some pretty dramatic options that really mess around with their stats because as it stands now I feel like heavies get overcharged for the ability to quad block. A heavy armor build option that "only" blocks 2 or 3 but is cheaper and/or can wreck some face would make me, Miranda and Garrett a lot happier than just tacking on moar armor and moar block.

Actually i agree with most of your point. I also hope the second awakening will give some decent options for heavies , but i kinda disagree on gellius model being unhealthy. I personally like what gelius does , and it's nothing wrong in doing 1 thing as long as you do that 1 thing really well. The problem apears when other classes that are better then you in other areas , are still better then you in what should be your speciallity.

The biggest problem really is that in a lot of cases you want your tank to be able to dish out some damage as well, so "classic" heavies won't be used too much. A second problem we have not bumped into much yet, but that does appear is the fact that heavies tank multiple units. If i bring up that last magic city map again, if i had put Deine in the middle to tank the first big golem, that'd be fine for that golem, but she would have eventually tanked both golems at once, killing her fast. Being able to tank more than one unit is often rather bad for endgame tanks since they do not want to take on the "boss" AND their underlings.

Heavies pretty much only exist to block tons of units, but in a lot of cases it's better to just kill said units faster with some unit that doesn't require their skill to deal good damage.

Originally Posted by Tenhou

Being able to tank more than one unit is often rather bad for endgame tanks since they do not want to take on the "boss" AND their underlings.

Easy: Park Elyse nearby! Both of their SAWs give Deine a healthy 5k defense to tank anything (that is not ignoring defense) AND wreck all of their faces at the same time

Well, for all 30 seconds of Seismic Fist's duration, but yeah.

Originally Posted by lolix

The problem apears when other classes that are better then you in other areas , are still better then you in what should be your speciallity.

Nah, see, the cure to that is worse than the disease and the multiple tank classes genie is already out of the bottle. Like I said, tanking is a binary role. You can either take the hits or you can't and after that it becomes a question of what kind of utility you bring to the table. So you can't really have Heavies be a one trick pony AND heavily role protect their trick so they're meaningfully better AND still let other tanking classes be viable as mega boss tanks. That needle is just too fucking narrow to be threaded in a game where most of the top end tanks are already locked behind the gacha paywall. The last thing the average player needs is another unit to join Elyse in being virtually mandatory for majins. On a per player basis the game is more interesting and better balanced for having multiple viable tanks in the unit pool even if that means one trick pony tanks suffer a bit by comparison to the all-stars. Rolling any of that back would be unwise compared to simply acknowledging that high rarity heavies can and should be doing more than taking punches to the face, something which the devs thankfully seem to realize now. And fwiw, it's not like Bernice and Gellius have truly faded into obscurity, either. Being overly specialized isn't really a problem until you get to black tier units that are expected to carry teams on their back. Bernice and Gellius still have value because by tanking above their rarity tier they're very useful for free players, newbies or people who decided to chase other things with their gacha pulls. They're not always the best solutions, but sometimes you need to take what you can get and compared to Cornelia they're reasonably common.

and that can be easily done by making the heavy's defense scale on the number of units blocked.

You block 1 unit ? no additional boost. You tank multiple units ? You get a boost in defense power. That way some duelists or other end game tank units (that are not heavies) can still be the ones to tank solo bosses , while heavies still being the best overall tanks while facing multiple units. That way you don't have to overbuff heavies to the point where they are a step over everything in terms of tanking , even megabosses , but you don't have them fade into obscurity either by having them incapable of tanking 3 stronger then average units without heavy healer support.


How is this not a good ideea ?

It's not a terrible idea, but it'd be kinda odd that you might actually want to leave goblins and weenie shit alive when faced with a sufficiently mixed group so you have your buff against the big stuff. A niche use to be sure, but odd. It also invites the question of whether the devs actually want units blocking multiple tankbusters. My guess would be no but then again I'm not a mind reader.