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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mraktar View Post
    But on DMM wind ulti has nerfed damage/multihit as i can see.
    Please don't spout nonsense out of thin air. WiUL was never nerfed. Only Water, Light and Dark among the ULs, and Water Thunder Light among the Rags, were nerfed.


  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Please don't spout nonsense out of thin air. WiUL was never nerfed. Only Water, Light and Dark among the ULs, and Water Thunder Light among the Rags, were nerfed.
    It was just my personal impression because i've got too much oneshots on nutaku with wiult's multihits while almost never got them on dmm last months even before yama was awaken and almost always (now it's always) solo aab-ed it when i was too lazy to press "invite" on 50% hp. Maybe my dmm grid is already stronger then nutaku's and it's just a missconception.

  3. #13
    I have some additional tips and comments that hopefully will be of some value to others:

    Fighting disaster ults in general:

    When you're a weak player, bringing atk down is important, not just def down (exception to wind 'cos of high debuff immunity and dark, 'cos DoT is unaffected by atk down.)

    If you have a good healer and have some ascension in your grid, you can actually turtle through or live much much longer in most ults if you can hit 50% atk down or close to it (BP still required in many fights.)

    If you're manual-ing and not strong enough to brute-force through, Joan is generally better than Andromeda - dmg cut mitigates a lot more dmg than a heal can top up. They're not mutually exclusive though - I ran Joan with Sol AW for a long time and it works really well.


    Fire ult:

    Having access to cleanse is a plus, 'cos fire ult can debuff you, and eating an OD with the debuffs is pretty painful. Also, unless your hp is really high, atk down is very useful in fire ult - more useful than dmg cut or heal 'cos even with BP, OD frequency is very high.


    Fire rag:

    Actually, if you can't find a big enough group, killing the top add is a priority. It makes surviving past 10T possible if the top add is dead. You don't want to keep getting the def down debuff from the top add though, so you save your abilities and FB for the top add and attack the main boss otherwise. Also, only target the top add only when the main boss is not about to OD - you can't cleanse the def down between the top add debuffing you and the main boss attacking. Alternatively, you can use affliction block (which is what I do, since Eros is a staple in my team.)

    Once top add is dead, just target the main boss. DO NOT also kill the second add, that'll just make things harder.


    Water ult:

    You can fight fire with fire (or more like fight water with water) and turtle up yourself if you have lots of atk down and ascension in your grid.

    For the high dmg 2-hit at 30% hp, there're actually lots of ways to counter it - anyone with cover will eat both, so you lose only one hime instead of two. If you have Gaia AW, or create something equivalent, you lose zero himes. Examples are Attar + Kubera, Kushinada + Otohime (not ideal, since that pair is very very weak), or just anyone with cover + Joan MEX skill; if you have Morgan, you can do the inverse and put induced asylum on anyone that has nullify; I think Andro's MEX fortitude on someone with cover works, too if I'm not mistaken. If you're on AAB, just put two offensive himes in your sub slots that can give you one final push - this is actually one of the reasons why I put Metatron and Takeminakata in subs for my universal AAB team.


    Water rag:

    I hate fighting this thing - slow at the beginning of the fight 'cos of all the defensive buffs and stalling debuffs, and slow at the end when everyone too lazy to fight comes and leech causing massive lag.

    Anyway, there is a way to bypass the add's 50% trigger if you have enough ppl and are coordinated - everyone save their nukes and the strongest player save their FB right before the add hits half health. Then everyone unleash their nukes and the strongest player FB after everyone fires their nukes - if you kill the add in one turn, you can bypass the trigger - the FB + nukes needs to do over 15m dmg basically. I think it also works if you manage to paralyze the add, then everyone can take their turns normally.


    Wind ult:

    The no debuffs isn't actually that bad, since wiult has less hp than most of the other ults to make up for it. Her dizzy and atk down are much more annoying than debuff-resistant in my experience, since it can mess with your burst cycle.

    If you have himes that can taunt + intercept, those are very good for wiult, since a lot of dmg in wiult comes from regular attacks due to her combo buffs and lack of any abilities outside of OD.


    Wind rag:
    No comment right now, I don't see these much these days for some reason.

    Thunder ult:

    I don't remember thunder ult hitting that hard. Fult has always been the hard-hitting one iirc. Thunder is easy to debuff, so I used to just bring a full set of 50% def and atk down with blind thrown on top with my light team. The annoying thing about thunder is that if you're not careful, you can get caught in an infinite paralysis loop, 'cos her raging OD has 2T paralyze, and if you didn't bring BP, she'll OD again in 2T. BP ensures that you won't be caught in that loop. If you're on AAB, affliction block is nice to have (cleanse is not that reliable, 'cos your cleanser can get paralyzed, and cleanse timing is often wrong on AAB.)


    Thunder rag:

    Bring dmg mitigation and a team that has decent hp. It is pretty rare to be in a trag where everyone is smart enough to leave the dragon in stun (a lot of ppl AAB-ing maybe?) so you gotta be ready for the main boss zapping.

    Oh, and my experience is that Andro is still useful even when the boss starts zapping, assuming ppl have some basic defensive measures and put atk down on the main boss.


    Light ult:

    If you're solo-ing at a low power level, do not request support so you can wait out the buffs. If you stack up enough atk down and bring dmg cut, you can survive the death beams as long as the dmg cut hime/soul doesn't get killed. Alternatively, use cover/nullify combos I described in wault to last a little longer. Only request support once your formation has completely fallen apart.

    If you wait the buffs out, save your abilities and FB for after the boss rages and buffs expired. If you don't want to wait the buffs out, use them right before the boss rages ('cos the buffs include defensive buffs.) The idea is to finish the last half of the boss in as few turns as possible.

    If you're AAB-ing, have strong subs ready.


    Light rag:

    Oh boy... If I wasn't a light main, I wouldn't even bother hosting these.

    Most important thing to note with lrag especially if you're not strong enough to carry: DO NOT take more than 6T unless you see the main boss raging already. Anyone taking the 7th turn will instantly cause the main boss to rage, and then the main boss will make all the adds rage, too.

    Out of all the rags, lrag hates weak players the most, 'cos if you and your friends can't kill the top add within 6T, you've basically lost. The raging top add buffs everything such that you deal half dmg, and the main boss can kill off a 20k hp hime at full health with NORMAL attacks if it TAs with full buffs on someone with archer's mark. Sure, go ahead and dispel, there're 6 buffs to dispel, and if you dispel any pair of buffs, the top add immediately reapplies it if ANYONE takes a turn. Top add also cleanses one debuff on raging OD, and if you have multiple ppl in the raid AAB-ing, none of the debuffs will stay on. So, kill the top add in 6T, otherwise you're basically sitting ducks.

    Also, don't underestimate the bottom add. Kill it after the top add. Getting hit with the archer's mark on still hurts even without the top add's buffs. Once both adds are dead, the main boss is basically a souped up version of raging light ult, which isn't too bad as long as a few strong players join.

    Disclaimer: if you ever join a lrag I host, you'll notice that I break the do not take 7th turn rule - that's 'cos I lost so many lrag I host that I started doing crazy things, and unless you're as crazy as I am, do not attempt it.


    Dark ult:

    Bring Sol AW. This thing is pretty hard without her. Also consider using Barong instead of St. Nick as main eido - the dark resistance helps reduces the number of debuffs sticking to you - it's rng yes, but over the course of a normal dult battle, there're probably hundreds of debuff counts, and statistically it'll noticeably tilt things in your favor with more resistance.

    If you're manual-ing, save your nukes and FB until the boss is at full orbs - you want to stun it at full orbs as that will stop the boss from spamming debuffs, giving you time to recover (if you've already opened up your raid, then just hope a lot of Andromedas join 'cos timing that stun is very hard with lots of ppl in the raid.)

    If you're too weak to reliably do a lot more than 50k dmg every turn, just use your abilities and stop, so the boss doesn't regen more than you can dmg. Or even better, bring Naberius and cast zombie on the main boss so the 50k regen turns into a 50k DoT on the boss - make sure you bring your own cleanse or affliction block (SR Amon works fine), otherwise all the Andros in the raid will kill you quick.


    Dark rag:

    I actually do bring maiden's prayer to drags I host... But that's 'cos very few ppl join my drags...

    Anyway, if you have mastered dult, drag isn't that hard as long as you kill both rabbits at the same time. For whatever reason though, ppl just love to just focus on one rabbit. When I host, I always hold my abilities and FB when one rabbit is near dead, so I can burst down the other one to shorten the pain of dealing with a raging rabbit.

    Btw, a lot of ppl seem to not like dealing with the rabbits, so they only join when the raid is half-dead - roughly when both rabbits are dead or close to dead. If you don't have a group to support you, expect to pretty much solo the drag until you kill both rabbits.




    EDIT:

    Sorry, didn't notice this before but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mraktar View Post
    Dark will be nerfed somedays, it's solo aab-able now even with off-element. Top team is Shingen, X, Eros aw, Sol aw, Mike aw. X is Tishia or damage dealer like Vishnu etc (I guess that Tishia is #1 because we have 0 def debuff in other case). This team makes almost impossible to fail during dark ulti/rag (excluding if you kill only 1 add on rag and keep second alive ). Unfortunately I have only Eros and Tishia. Mike is must have to make Eros work properly. Her aw will be this winter just like raid rework (i don't remember exact date). Block a debuff + get 20 charge bar to everyone after each burst is a good strategy to win dark ulti/rag.
    Don't bring Vishnu to dult or drag... Aratron is fine 'cos no DoT there, but the DoT will clear Vishnu's buffs, so she just becomes a fast hime with nothing else to offer. And no, you can't count on Eros blocking all the debuffs, 'cos there're multiple ones in a single turn, and Eros can only block one per turn at most even after AW. Eros AW is February if taco follows DMM schedule, but who the heck knows with taco.

    Also, Iris is the best choice for X in that setup imo - strong debuff, fast, hits hard and don't have to worry about hp going down from ability use so just go full on AAB.
    Last edited by dreamlitz; 6 Days Ago at 03:18 PM.

  4. #14

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    Overall good points, but a few things:
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    Also consider using Barong instead of St. Nick as main eido - the dark resistance helps reduces the number of debuffs sticking to you - it's rng yes, but over the course of a normal dult battle, there're probably hundreds of debuff counts, and statistically it'll noticeably tilt things in your favor with more resistance.
    Assuming that Barong even gives you debuff resistance - which it might but might not - I doubt it will matter? I mean, the fucker will spam those debuffs on you EVERY turn. And they last 10 turns. That's not really going to make a difference...?
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    Or even better, bring Naberius and cast zombie on the main boss so the 50k regen turns into a 50k DoT on the boss - make sure you bring your own cleanse or affliction block (SR Amon works fine), otherwise all the Andros in the raid will kill you quick.
    Unless this has been changed, I don't think this happens. There used to be a raid boss that gave you Zombify and only your own heals would hurt you. Heals from raid members would heal for 0.
    Quote Originally Posted by dreamlitz View Post
    --
    Also, don't underestimate the bottom add. Kill it after the top add. Getting hit with the archer's mark on still hurts even without the top add's buffs.--
    How? I don't see it being possible to die to anything else except the main body beam spam. For which it just doesn't matter whether or not you have the Mark on you - you WILL die even without the mark unless you have like 90%+ Damage Cut. If it's true that Light Rag will no longer Rage from just turns and the beam spam will scatter... THEN that will start to matter.

    Unless there's something that I am missing, seeing as my Dark Grid is extremely tanky.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Assuming that Barong even gives you debuff resistance - which it might but might not - I doubt it will matter? I mean, the fucker will spam those debuffs on you EVERY turn. And they last 10 turns. That's not really going to make a difference...?
    For some reason I remembered the duration being less, but I just looked it up and yes, it's 10T... Maybe my Sol AW cleansed them so it felt like a shorter duration.

    Unless this has been changed, I don't think this happens. There used to be a raid boss that gave you Zombify and only your own heals would hurt you. Heals from raid members would heal for 0.
    Oh ok, I always cleanse right away when I used that trick, so I'm not certain tbh... I thought I got hurt from a raid-wide heal during that UE that spams debuffs including zombie, but I wasn't paying close attention, so it might have been my own heal.

    How? I don't see it being possible to die to anything else except the main body beam spam. For which it just doesn't matter whether or not you have the Mark on you - you WILL die even without the mark unless you have like 90%+ Damage Cut. If it's true that Light Rag will no longer Rage from just turns and the beam spam will scatter... THEN that will start to matter.
    I guess it depends on how bruised your team is from taking down the first add. I often have a few himes half or three-quarters dead from just the buffed regular attacks when top add was still alive. The adds also attack, and the dmg can add up (I use my light team against lrag if I'm not hosting, which doesn't help I guess.)

  6. #16

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    long story short, the quintessence of da first post is
    Debuff immune content is stupid.
    sad, but true.

  7. #17

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    I find it hilarious how this happened:
    Last edited by Kitty; 1 Day Ago at 07:44 PM.
    Well, I guess I'll just never update the first post. What parts are written by me? What parts are written by Kitty? I suppose we'll never know!
    Good thing I have the second post, I guess. Will post the guides to the nerfed content when it happens in Dec.

    And also this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Sure. In that case do not quote me responsible for any inaccuracy or vague interpretations if the raids do something unexpected. But hey maybe you like being outdated and blind, or just simply don't care since you expect others to carry you. Either way, you bunch have been warned.
    Har har har, adding the bolded part a full day after the post is pretty amusing. I guess Bear just wants to be seen as an aggressive person, for some reason.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    I find it hilarious how this happened:Well, I guess I'll just never update the first post. What parts are written by me? What parts are written by Kitty? I suppose we'll never know!
    Good thing I have the second post, I guess. Will post the guides to the nerfed content when it happens in Dec.
    just changed it to thread by laven instead of bear since he had such a problem with it. wanted to avoid any bullshit bc i know some ppl here have major anger management issues, as shown by the replies to this thread + others.
    you can edit it back, tho. if you want.

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