Thread: HBC's FKG 6* Tier List

Instead of using the forumpoll, we could use something like Strawpoll. In the first post you can pu the3 pictures of the 3 current girls and redirect to their respective poll.

edit: Something like this (but maybe with smaller pictures. So, they can go on the same line and take less vertical space.


Black Baccara's Tier Voting Poll


Dendrobium's Tier Voting Poll


Cattleya's Tier Voting Poll

It's maybe a better idea to swap Wiki link and Poll link. Poll link goes on the picture, wiki link goes on a text under the picture.

Yeah that's a good idea. This way everyone can create the poll and it's not limited only to me.

However i see a huge flaw in both systems the forum poll and the straw poll (i only realized it by now): Unregistered users can vote.
I checked it (I voted C-Tier for BB as an unregistered users).

I would like to make it mandatory to register here to have the right to vote.
Write a little text why you think the girl should be in this Tier yaddi yaddi yadda.
Since this Tier List should be created by us forumers it annoys me that even someone who only visit this forum one time in his live can vote.
How should i know if this random unregistered user has knowledge about the game or not?

Maybe every forumer who wants to vote should just write his opinion and ranking about the girls and i summarize it at then end of each week.

I thought the same thing. What's if unkwnown peoples vote or if some people vote extreme tiers just to change te results... But even if other people votes, they can still vote only one time since it's limited to one time per IP adress.
I think we should just keep both thread explaination and strawpoll and follow the main tendency to decide tier after that (with more importance to text from our firend than wreid isolated votes, far from actual thoughts of our little community.
In other words, like we said earlier, it's just a tiering for fun. We should not bother too much about that and about false votes. 1 vote will not make a big difference anyway, too much votes will be obvious since we are not that much here.

Oh, so we start with Ms. sadist big boobs? I don't really like her so biased may present. I'll try to be as objective as possible though.

BB is one of the rarer rainbow I see in helper team and obviously I don't have her. I'll try grading in 3 topics before giving a final verdict then.

1. Raw stat: Her stat is great, everything is higher than normal except her speed. 430 spd can break the team composition easily with average speed of helper team around 550-600.
Grading: C+
2. Skill: Normal AOE you can see everywhere and nothing to fancy nor shabby. It's not exactly too fitting for her selfish abilities, which will discuss in the next topic.
Grading: C+
3. Abilities: Her abilities are rather selfish, immense atk boost to herself and another lucky girl who will get it. Ideally we want it on the girl with boss killer skill that can deal weakness damage as well, but you have to bet on 25% chance to let it drop on the girl you want. The skill act is common but good. The atk boost with no. of pests x15% is good on paper. But most of the time the hardest boss will appeared solo or two, hampered the maximum potential of this skill. Def boost is like ugly duckling for her and since she's not fitting to counter team made this skill... well... just there? Not exactly helping.
Grading: C-

Final Verdict: C She's definitely a great member as big shot in AOE team but aside from that she seems really lacking for me. Not to mention that I'm not a fan of buff on random girls too. The abilities synergy is jumble and messed up with the stray def boost.

I'll go for Cattleya, since I have her.

TP
In term of TP she is one of the low TP rainbow in this game with 29920 TP @ her full bloom+full affect.
Compare with Sakura has 31008 & Hanamizuki/Dogwood has 31540.
What make her TP very low is her HP. That's upset me quite a bit.

Speed
She has 565 speed, not speedy not slow.

Active skill
Her active skill is on par with most other rainbow that have all target active skill.

Passive Skill
Her passive offence buff is strong with +40% atk for 3 party member.
She also has very good skill use buff with +18% skill dmg for all member & 1.2 increase activation rate.
Only passive that make me feel weird with her is the increase 50% light gauge skill when start the map.
It's doesn't match other passive much.

Overall
In real combat Cattleya is very fragile, she may K.O. easy in all kind of extreme map when get only severals hit.
If player really want to use her as main in every map, they have to amps her well + have good jewelry for her.

If player not aiming to create speedy party, Cattleya can fit in team easy.
Also her all target active skill do help a lot in term of AOE.

She's can produce a lot of offence power for the party with her buff, if player put her in right place.
Even the light gauge buff is weird but if you look for free 50% light gauge she can also help.

In my opinion her rate before buff campaign start is B.
But since the dev start to buff a lot of girls so now her rate will be C+.

Why?
Like I said she's very fragile, difficult to keep her alive in extreme map.
She can go down is some high difficulty normal map too, if player unlucky.

Also her 40% atk buff is random target buff.
And right now we have some girls that can buff 30% - 35% atk for all party member and other stack atk buff.
Do we still need a random 40% atk buff?

BUT! dev going to buff her soon™, so she will be a lot stronger.
She will get buff both her TP and passive, I'm very sure about it.

I suggest throwing in a link so we can view the girl without the need for prolonged navigation.
As for the unreg people - I said this many times as well as in in other game threads. If someone cant be bothered to take a little time to register, while they can still post comments, but considering the zero investment form their side just ignore them for the purpose of polls etc.

twilight - I thought we are discussing all 3 girls in an order even if you dont have her. I mean I will comment on comment on Denbro and Cat as well, but not immediately.

We can take it slowly to give everyone a chance to comment on each girl. I suggest Wutan always drops a comment with the picture of the next girl in discussion after the first one is concluded and no one responds to her anymore. Then we discuss the next one, wait till everyone who wants to jump in has a chance, and move one. (doesnt mean we wait endlessly for everyone, but few days for each girl seems about right.)

Wutan, this being your thread I think you should be the one to call the shots with a comment including picture and all when moving onto the next girl in question after giving everyone a chance to respond, since otherwise it will become slightly chaotic

As for Black Bacara.

Rating:
I think she is B- or C+. Her stats are above avarage, only her defense is on the weak side, which is odd in combination with her Def skill.
Her HP and attack are pretty high. Speed is mediocre/on the slower side, but nothing that cant be fixed with other girls own speed.

Stats and Skills:
As for the skills. She does offer a solid damage buff. Her skill is standard 2.2 AoE with 24% chance on L1 up to 34%. So the usual.

As for the skills I can see her shining in two setups - full damage setup with girls buffing their raw damage and skill act.
Or in a team where girls have Guts/Def buffing abylities to guard etc. Since there are some other knights who being offensively tailored do still have these (Mace loli Chan in my helper team for example. You wouldnt believe how often that Guts pulled me through broken fights, and no one cant complain about her not being an Offense centered girl.)
So technically you could go with high damage, vanilla team with defense buffs as one of the abilities, maybe even guts for that matter, resulting into a unexpectedly tough DMG team, that can wither good amounts of damage simply through high Guard/Guts rate, but still dishes out above average damage.

Design: I know this is not part of what should be discussed, but if we are rating girls I think the overall feel and aesthetics are a major part of each knight. There are girls for each of us, that dont have skills we want, but we choose them for Waifu reasons. Thus I shall include it, and honestly I think peope should consider it as well, since this is Waifu simulator game after all, so discussing the design of the Waifus is a part of ranking :P

->Open Spoiler<-

Now as for other aspects such as art and story. I dont have Black Boobara so cant comment on voice or story. The art is amazing as far as the amount of tiny details go. Sprite is also fairly cute, reminds me of a bubble head thing you put into your car.
Now for the negatives of her design - I will not factor the boobs. She is after all Black Boobara, and there are some people who like that stuff.
She is fairly nice and thick but not fat so you have something to grab onto.
I am not a fan of that pale purple skin of hers though... what the heck, did she fall into a Galaxy ray disco chamber ? As far as we know I believe she is human, not some demi-human like elf chan, neko, inu or foxy chan, or as I recently learned an Oni like tiger lily, so that skin makes little sense, other than the artist own expression.

Consistency is the name of the game for her design, All 3 artworks are nice, though personally the Evo art is pure shit due to her expressien and the way she poses with her boobs. i do appreciate her Bloom art softening her facial features a tiny bit and showing her actually smiling. My favorite though is the basic first form. While I like my "sexi" as any other guy, I think the market is oversaturated with "too slutty". The basic artwork shows her clad In a yukata-ish attire and while shows some skin it keeps it all nicely packed for your imagination to explore. Classy is the word.
Compared to some 6* girls whose artwork is so simple, stale and just boring due to pale color palette and absolute lack of any details I think BB is definitely up there as far as quality and painting skill goes.

Voice, Scene & overall Vibe:
Now as I said, I have not seen her scene, nor heared her voice. However bunch of people call her sadist. Though some did say thats not entirely true and its more like she simply has a strong Ram like personality. Cant judge that honestly. Dont really like S&M shit myself so that would be a turn off for me.

Ultimate Design
As for the design of her Active skill - considering she belongs to the games Early characters where compared to some of the never girls those ultimates just look bland and boring (the devs sure did progress with their skill as far as making the effects more epic over time.), never the less I think it fits her theme, isnt completely unmemorable, and that slow motions backwards jump she does during it is pretty funny... you know Max Paine and all that old school hollywood stuff

Conclusion:
As much as I hated this girl in my early days, I have been warming up to her slowly and even had a moment or two of temptation to pick her up with a ticket or coins. I think she can work well in several setups, and even if not included in those, she still can pull her own way rather reliably.
If you like what she has going on, she is in the reliable spectrum, nothing surprisingly amazing, but nothing to disappointing either, as far as 6* go. In one word: Solid

I want to share my real experience on the girl.
So I decide to go for Cattleya since I have her and use her as main in the past.
But I will comment on BB soon™ after I study her a bit.

Dangerous on the outside, sweet on the inside. Goddess of the Shore. Banana Ocean's Flash. My one and only Red Ginger / レッドジンジャー.

Greetings, gentlemen. Commander Kurenai on post for this special discourse.

I am very grateful to Commander Wutan for letting me have a wall of text word on my beautiful waifu. My fellow brothers of the Council, I apologize for the delay.

I hail from a tropical island nation, so it is only natural for me to have an affinity for Red Ginger.

In case you're wondering why she has yet to see action, I want to full spec her before she goes out on the field. I am still lacking enough Super Ampules and Rainbow Equipment Flowers to do that, so for now, she's just chilling out and taking her precious time. While I opted not to use her yet for the said reason, I've had plenty of observations of her from specific Japanese comrades right from Day 1. (I don't blame Commander Dusk that he forgot I also own her.)

I may echo Ninja's opinions at some points in this post as we both hold a high regard for her.

Statistics
Let's start with 36-24-36...... er, I believe that's her vital statistics.

With 21,624 max HP*, Red Ginger has one of the highest health pools in the game, second only to Dendrobium. As one of her strong points, this works to her advantage as it serves as an ample reservoir of health that can be improved by Healing Boost, preventing turnover of stolen HP. She is also top 5 in overall force at 31,842 max points*, only bested by Dendrobium, Hanamizuki, Black Baccara, and Hatsuyukisou. By virtue of this, she is an asset by providing a lot of raw power to any ship color in Whale Airship.
*Excludes boosts from Ampules and Super Ampules.

Red Ginger's 700 base speed (net of 850) makes her individually one of the fastest. "This mobility unit's the truth!" says Ludacris. I personally like blitz-ing most dungeons, so I will find a nice spot for her no matter what. When I was a newbie on DMM, I thought those Japanese whales who dealt lots of damage on raid bosses, those men of great culture, with Ginger as their waifu or assistant had blazing-fast helpers and so I befriended them. With access to those parties (>1400 speed) in the beginning, I easily farmed even top-tier event stages by letting the helper get to the goal so that my 4 very slow White Clover parties (200 speed) could collect stuff around the stage without them having to fight enemies (that was my go-to strategy for the first event until my golds were strong enough).

On the flip side, Red Ginger's DEF is about average, though it wouldn't have been an issue had she gotten a different ability instead of Counter. Her DEF doesn't particularly do justice to her Counter as well as Super Counter since her Defend (which also relies on DEF) isn't likely to frequently proc for Super Counter to trigger compared to a true counter-puncher rainbow such as Saffron. Of course, attack is the one stat in dire need of a buff. 6,944 max ATK* is indeed glaringly low (!!!) for an offensive-oriented rainbow with a single-target drain skill, when those with AOE skills such as Nadeshiko break 8,000 ATK, or even 9,000 when fully ampuled! To be honest, I really hate bringing up this part.
*Excludes boosts from Ampules and Super Ampules.

« Incoming rant »

->Open Spoiler<-

Come on, devs! You designed her with an HP drain skill, but you failed to buff the important stat that went with it. I'm still waiting for you to do it. Step up your game!

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Skill
Once upon a time, and for a long time, Red Ginger's Crimson Serenade had the best skill damage multiplier in the game at x4.3, arguably the strongest at the time as it also drains HP. Then there was a huge wave of character buffs last year, and she lost the one thing that made her special. Even so, she is worth investing skill flowers into as it not only improves her life drain proc, it also improves her passive to boost others' skill proc. 38% max proc (post-June 11 buff) is pretty much the standard for an HP drain skill.

Did I mention her skill animation is simply badass?

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Abilities
Gotta go fast, gotta go faster, fa-fa-fa-fa-faster!
Speed is quite a trait among Banana Ocean girls, and Red Ginger is not an exception with her high speed and a 150 party speed boost. I know that 99% find it a nuisance, but on my end, I actually find it useful as I tend to sortie with one party having >150 speed advantage than others. My waifu will fit right in. Less than 600 party speed bores me to death.

Red Ginger is one of the distinct rainbows with a x1.28 ~ x1.36* skill activation boost to all party members based on skill level, which I consider an upgrade from the affection-based x1.2 boost that most rainbows have. Recently, her ATK boost to all party members was buffed from 20% to 30%, and on top of that, she got a new 15% skill damage boost to all party members. These abilities mesh well with one another, further raising everyone's damage output. This ability triad should be the best part of her arsenal.

I was still on the other version when I first learned of her bloom release on DMM in November 2016, and while I was initially happy with the abilities she got, it eventually dawned upon me that she should have had a more fitting ability instead of Counter. Counter isn't particularly bad on its own, and when given to the right character (e.g. Saffron, Tatarian Aster, Water Dropwort), it has its merits. Red Ginger would have been better off with evasion, HP- or speed-based damage, or even auto-heal like that of Soapwort or Purslane. Nevertheless, she has the potential to deal a good amount of damage from Super Counter when geared up.

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Synergy
Red Ginger's set of ablities render her a versatile character, and because many rainbows are getting skill activation-based abilities on top of unique ones, she functions in almost any setup. In lieu of Yamabuki, she can function as a damage source in a 70% attack debuff + high activation lineup with Counter/Super Counter as secondary damage.

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Final Grade
Waifu barely slipped into S-. I predicted her to be A-tier to most people, but as hazubando, I have faith that she can be stronger than an A when maxed out in all aspects, short of being broken (Yamabuki).

Let me end with a clip by Windranger from DOTA 2. I know Ginger is not even a gingerhead, but you get my point. I'm disappointed with the way they treat her.

Japan, what has my waifu done to y'all?

Originally Posted by Kurenai

I may echo Ninja's opinions at some points in this post as we both hold a high regard for her.

Final Grade
Waifu barely slipped into S-. I predicted her to be A-tier to most people, but as hazubando, I have faith that she can be stronger than an A when maxed out in all aspects, short of being broken (Yamabuki).

Yeah! Totally knew it and spot on! *BROFIST!!!* Believe in the teddy bear loving waifu!!!

Ah, Kerria/Yamabuki! I suppose I'll go first.

She is one of the core characters on my roster as well as my second-most favorite girl after my waifu. I got her on 4/23 via the Spring '18 ticket.

Statistics
HP and attack are core stats for HP absorption skill users like Kerria. 20,472 max HP* is above average (albeit lower than Red Ginger's) and should give her enough reservoir that can be supplemented by Healing Boost as her skill leeches so much HP. 8,112 max ATK* is the best among those with HP absorb, only slightly bested by that of Abutilon, Sakura, and Ume (all 3 of which have purely single-target skills). 2,648 max DEF* is on the low end, but it doesn't matter much if she can evade and simply regain 2x the HP she lost with a swing of her deadly katana. She is rather slow at 430 SPD, but her usefulness should outweigh it anyway especially in broken dungeons where speed is the least of one's worries.

Grade: A+

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Skill
Kerria and Red Ginger are the game's only native rainbows with HP absorption, and neither of them offers a vantage point, being equal in this regard (standard x4.3 multiplier with HP absorption, 36% proc at skill level 5). In-battle HP regeneration is few and far between, so those that can considerably heal themselves have some edge over many others.

Grade: S

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Abilities
When Kerria got her bloomed abilities last year, people were going bananas. With her powerful "survival kit," she can single-handedly bring victory even in really difficult battles.

Granted that she doesn't have party-wide buffs, she has stronger versions of them, and she benefits from it most. A 40% attack buff to augment her high base attack stat translates nicely into a marked damage output, further boosted by damage of up to 62.5% of her current health (when overhealed by Healing Boost's effect), powering her DPS as well as HP absorption to even more ridiculous levels. Combined with her evasion, her enemies are set up for a rude awakening in a vicious cycle of leech-evade-leech-evade until they die. My Kerria in a -70% [work in progress] debuff lineup makes a mockery of Level 245 raid bosses, regenerating more HP than the damage she receives, and the enemies die trying!




Kerria is the last woman standing in the Core Stage battle

Kerria's +40% defense buff and 6.8% damage reduction, which are surprisingly higher than those of Saffron's (+30% and 5.3% respectively), conveniently covers her "weak point." If push comes to shove, she also can resist fainting with guts (although from my experience in EX Sakura and Ume, it was not proccing all the time).

Grade: OP...... I mean, S

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Team Building
Kerria strongly hinges on her skill not just for damage but also for survival, which makes it imperative that she is coupled with skill activation support so that she can keep swinging it as much as possible. That said, she can be a carry of sorts in a debuff-activation hybrid, or to a lesser degree, in a crit-activation hybrid and watch her damage skyrocket.

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Conclusion
Kerria is the singular most powerful girl in the game, having solid core stats + game-breaking repertoire that made her into the most formidable one-woman army as we know it.

With that, I give her the D...... er, S+.

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Extra
Back in my days on the other version, I befriended a non-forumer with Kerria as his assistant, and as I was regularly using his helper lineup, Kerria slowly grew on me, becoming my second most-favorite knight after my waifu. I eventually realized that Moneti designed both of them, so it's a big check. I really love her second portrait the most (mmm, armpit); forget the bloomed one. While she does check a lot of boxes, her voice isn't doing justice for her beauty though. Nevertheless, she still makes for a great waifu.

Grade: A+