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So... apparently they did another popularity poll? I can't tell which order they were in, but hey, these are the himes who won.
Here comes the "of fucking course Sol wins" rage comments.
[QUOTE=Unregistered;118157]Quote:
Originally Posted by ThundeR~
This is what I meant by stupid unregistered trolls ruining the forum.
>Quotes Tower an example
>Doesn't know what tower is
>Acts over smart in front of a DMM player when that guy has actually seen both those himes in action and you haven't
*Sigh*
Yeah, sounds about right. Because of apples and oranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
You're comparing a Hime who is good in THUNDER only (a 15% damage increase in her own element, though practically higher due to using the 35% increase for your high damage turns), against a Hime who is good in ANY element (24% increase) and absolutely broken in her own element (46% increase). I think it's rather clear that Light Nike is broken as fuck. That doesn't mean that Thunder Aphrodite is bad, it just means that she is entirely outclassed by Light Nike, as very, very few Hime can go into off-element teams and actually bring forth a significant damage increase.
If Light Nike isn't an auto-include in your teams (like, literally ALL of your teams!) then it's not a problem with Light Nike. It's a problem with content. Of course, there's a fair chance that we'll never get content where Light Nike can shine. Thus, you can make the argument that Light Nike is practically bad because of this, and feel free to do so. But again, that doesn't make Light Nike objectively bad. Well, against content that Dispels you she might be, that's true. Nutaku hasn't had such content so that didn't cross my mind.
Every single one of the other Hime you mentioned are probably going to be replaced sooner or later. Yes, even Thunder Aphrodite. However, unless DMM introduces weapons which give you like 50% Assault per slot or P2W Eidolons with 150%+ Character Attack, Light Nike will never grow any weaker. This is rather unlikely, and as such, Light Nike should absolutely dominate her niche in Kamihime forever. Is that niche ever going to be a thing? Hard to tell. But it is fully possible, and as such, you shouldn't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.
The bottom line is, anyone who doesn't have 100% perfect teams in all elements will be happy to draw Light Nike over Thunder Aphrodite (and that is what the context of this originally was). And for those bottomless whales who do have those teams, it won't even matter since they can just keep drawing.Would you mind elaborating at this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
Since really, out of all Thunder Hime, this seems to fit a whopping two: Brahma (self-only, incredible 5/6 turns uptime) and Raiko (team-wide, 1/6 turns uptime). Oh, and Athena against Water (team-wide, 1/5 turns uptime). Sure, many of Thunder Hime have self-heals, but even in today's content the ~1500 heal just isn't sufficient to keep shit healthy.Also curious about this. When we get to Dispel stuff, we Dispel only one stack a time (I'm looking at you, Rahab). Do enemy Dispels clear out Light Nike's entire stack?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
Also, I wouldn't say that she's "completely useless" even against Dispelling content. That double Full Burst is still extremely powerful, especially if you build around it. But it does take the wind out of Light Nike's sails. A double Full Burst doesn't make her worthy of bringing outside of her element, that's for sure.
I'd wager that her stackable frame atk buff is about the same frame as the stackable burst dmg ups we see in existing himes like Uriel and Metatron (aka, stacking frame), and it at least looks to me that it's simply an addition to the buff, therefore is treated as a single buff, which means one cleanse eats up the whole thing. Provided all of the above is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashley
Rahab's buff is a different story, her atk ups are on separate frames, not stacking frames.
Mind explaining how it Aphro is THUNDER ONLY? Coz her vigor buff is a flat multiplier that work with ANYTHING.Quote:
You're comparing a Hime who is good in THUNDER only (a 15% damage increase in her own element, though practically higher due to using the 35% increase for your high damage turns), against a Hime who is good in ANY element (24% increase) and absolutely broken in her own element (46% increase). I think it's rather clear that Light Nike is broken as fuck. That doesn't mean that Thunder Aphrodite is bad, it just means that she is entirely outclassed by Light Nike, as very, very few Hime can go into off-element teams and actually bring forth a significant damage increase.
Also spare me of that "ANY element bullshit", you are completely ignoring the fact that Off-element Nike is unlikely to last more than 2 turns in any content that her buff might matter (She consumes tokens almost as fast as she generate them so the Def+ passive is pretty much meaningless). Heck even bring off element Hime is endgame content is retarded to begin with.
Is Nike good in a Light team? Definitely, but again, to long to set up and Nike herself is very slow and will hinder the speed of the entire team. Calling her a bad light hime is unfair, but outmeta is definitely the word.
Well maybe those hime will be replaced, maybe not, we dont know yet. What we do know is Nike's alternatives are already here as Bear has pointed out.Quote:
Every single one of the other Hime you mentioned are probably going to be replaced sooner or later. Yes, even Thunder Aphrodite. However, unless DMM introduces weapons which give you like 50% Assault per slot or P2W Eidolons with 150%+ Character Attack, Light Nike will never grow any weaker. This is rather unlikely, and as such, Light Nike should absolutely dominate her niche in Kamihime forever. Is that niche ever going to be a thing? Hard to tell. But it is fully possible, and as such, you shouldn't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.
Again, spare me of that off-element bullshit. The dev tried to make that happen with SSR Diabolos before.Quote:
The bottom line is, anyone who doesn't have 100% perfect teams in all elements will be happy to draw Light Nike over Thunder Aphrodite (and that is what the context of this originally was). And for those bottomless whales who do have those teams, it won't even matter since they can just keep drawing.
How about Thunder Ryu 5/9 turn WaterRes+regen and 2turns cd heal, and Aphro herself. All those combines with self-heal is more than enough.Quote:
Would you mind elaborating at this?
Since really, out of all Thunder Hime, this seems to fit a whopping two: Brahma (self-only, incredible 5/6 turns uptime) and Raiko (team-wide, 1/6 turns uptime). Oh, and Athena against Water (team-wide, 1/5 turns uptime). Sure, many of Thunder Hime have self-heals, but even in today's content the ~1500 heal just isn't sufficient to keep shit healthy.
Amulet stack is considered a buff too, which mean it can be dispell as well, so no saving 7 amulets for double FB either.Quote:
Also curious about this. When we get to Dispel stuff, we Dispel only one stack a time (I'm looking at you, Rahab). Do enemy Dispels clear out Light Nike's entire stack?
Also, I wouldn't say that she's "completely useless" even against Dispelling content. That double Full Burst is still extremely powerful, especially if you build around it. But it does take the wind out of Light Nike's sails. A double Full Burst doesn't make her worthy of bringing outside of her element, that's for sure.
But content is our context. If a hime looks great on paper but there's no content where she can bring a significant improvement in clear speed or reliability, is she really that great? Himes are tools. Do you judge a hammer by how pretty it looks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashley
Demon Envy could dispel debuffs, I believe.
*Err, dispel buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
I think the points were made from both sides, and the result seems pretty clear, so I will just leave this here in case a certain someone wants to go on.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/40...098049.png?v=1
monkaSQuote:
Originally Posted by nonsensei
Yes I know this isn't twitch
Yes, yes it does. But just like Light Nike herself won't do any damage outside of Light teams, Thunder Aphrodite herself won't do any damage outside of Thunder builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Thunder Aphrodite's Vigor buff will still hand out 35% outside of Thunder, yes. Her heals and Barrier will perform just as well in other teams as well. But not only is she weak to Wind, her uptime on her buff is fairly poor. If she had 100% uptime, then she'd be a 9% damage increase off-element. Is that worth it? Yeah, sure. Heals + damage output, sounds good. But, because it's not 100% uptime, she ends up being ~7% damage decrease. Again, you can use her Vigor buff for your high damage turns, so you might end up at +-0% loss/gain from her (much like how off-element SR Beelz is). That is, if you can guarantee to be at 100% HP for those big damage turns.
tl;dr; CAN you use Thunder Aphrodite off-element? Yes, yes you can. She's nothing special, but if you don't have a healer in that element, AND you can ensure that you'll stay at 100% HP, AND you're not against Wind, you won't lose any damage output from using her. That makes her better to use than off-element Sol for some content (Sol heals for far more, but you'll take a big hit to your damage output).
Similarly, Light Nike's team-wide damage output drops from 46% to 24% when she's off-element. Because losing 1/5th of your team is THAT big of a deal. However, the 4 on-element Hime will still deal 46% extra damage each - thus easily outperforming the loss of the fifth party member (unless you hit damage cap) - and you'll do 24% extra damage overall. Thus, once Light Nike is at full speed, she's literally an extra P2W Eidolon for any element. Which brings us to this:And you see, this is how OP she is. We're talking about OFF-ELEMENT here. Most of my arguments have been for OFF-ELEMENT. Why? Because when it comes to Light teams, nothing even comes close to Light Nike's potential. Of course, again, there's the catch. Light Nike needs time to wind up. If the content doesn't allow this, then it is meaningless. Thus:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
As I said, this is a fair argument. But, just because it is a fair argument, doesn't mean that you should brush off a Hime whose potential is equal to finding Belial, Rudra, Kirin, Anubis and... Hanuman (since Hraes' OP on-use won't be a fair comparison) in a single pull. Not to mention something far, far stronger than Managarmr. This potential might only apply to a magical fantasy land that doesn't exist, but one day, it might. As such... again, don't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Also limited, but fair enough. If you're going to run double healers though, why not bring Diancecht? Well, she is released months later than Thunder Aphrodite, but still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Ouch. That's quite nasty. That means that Light Nike truly is utterly crippled by content which Dispels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage