Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Like comparing to your latest video? Against Ult Fire Disaster, you did
564k, 596k, 641k, 616k, 484k + 2104k
818k, 750k, 767k, 897k, 784k + 3495k
While the bottom line is what I did. And my Herc Axe isn't MLB yet since I got Mordred first.

... but that doesn't give much reference, really. That's like saying that my Fire team does less than Ikki's - it's just obvious from to the teamcomp differences.

Well, that vid certainly isn't the best example since my water team is an unwanted turtle team. I got Asherah ever since, but she changes way too much in burst output.

But then how the hell are we supposed to show you the difference? Should we recreate your team & make a vid like that? Unfortunately, I don't have Heph, so that's not gonna happen.

EDIT: neither Ammy.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

But then how the hell are we supposed to show you the difference? Should we recreate your team & make a vid like that?

That's an interesting idea.

But uh, you do realize we're pretty much just going to hit for the amount if we use the same Hime? We are all using pretty much the same Eidolons and mostly the weapons with the same weapon skills.

Originally Posted by Laventale

Once you get Hastur, Oberon stops being useful, you get 40% Def down with Cybele and Hastur alone.

Hercules's axe + Cybele U = 45% def down, Hastur/Oberon is overcap.

You do realize that that last 5% def down gives you an overall 10% dmg increase, right?

Yes, i do, but in some cases changing hime to more damaging one can give you much more damage boost, then this 9% from debuff. Actualy i use -50% def on my wind team (Hastur, Iblis, Hrae), but Kamihime is game of "here is a pile of random stuff+ other pile of event stuff, go and collect something usefull from it" so everyone must find his own optimal setup from aviable resourses. And maximizing damage over everything else may not be optimal idea - surviability is important too, corpse deals no damage. For example. i found that even with 200% wind and 100%+ assault Sol aw is better then Itaqua - yes, i lose about 10% damage, but heal 2700+ 1k regen+ 20% attack down+ dispel is not heal 1k + some damage. But if someone has for example Cybele u, Hastur and Cu Chulain, he may have different oppinion on last hime than me with Hastur as only wind SSR.

So my lineup now is Hercules/Shingen (later on), Cu Chulainn, awakened Gaia, SSR Cybele, and Oberon. Is it worth replacing Oberon for Titania/whoever in the future?

This guy, judging by saying that he wants to use Shingen later on, obviously wants to go on the offensive side. Not only that, but he also already has the way to defend himself if necessary: Gaia AW.
You are right on that we can't go giving general advice regardless of situation (would be pretty boring if we could), but this case being on hand, my approach seems fitting.

In this situation i think that Titania>>Oberon if Herc has an axe, else i recomend to keep debuffs from Oberon/ambush.

Originally Posted by Slashley

That's an interesting idea.

But uh, you do realize we're pretty much just going to hit for the amount if we use the same Hime? We are all using pretty much the same Eidolons and mostly the weapons with the same weapon skills.

To be honest, I'm just genuinely curious why our standpoints are so different. And as that have led to numerous clash of views, it would be nice to somehow pinpoint what causes it.

EDIT: I just realized, Bear also said similar stuff a few hours ago.

Originally Posted by Mraktar

Hercules's axe + Cybele U = 45% def down, Hastur is overcap.

You do realize that that last 5% def down gives you an overall 10% dmg increase, right?

Originally Posted by Mraktar

Yes, i do, but in some cases changing hime to more damaging one can give you much more damage boost, then this 9% from debuff. Actualy i use -50% def on my wind team (Hastur, Iblis, Hrae), but Kamihime is game of "here is a pile of random stuff+ other pile of event stuff, go and collect something usefull from it" so everyone must find his own optimal setup from aviable resourses. And maximizing damage over everything else may not be optimal idea - surviability is important too, corpse deals no damage. For example. i found that even with 200% wind and 100%+ assault Sol aw is better then Itaqua - yes, i lose about 10% damage, but heal 2700+ 1k regen+ 20% attack down+ dispel is not heal 1k + some damage. But if someone has for example Cybele u, Hastur and Cu Chulain, he may have different oppinion on last hime than me with Hastur as only wind SSR.

The original question:

Originally Posted by FreeToPay

So my lineup now is Hercules/Shingen (later on), Cu Chulainn, awakened Gaia, SSR Cybele, and Oberon. Is it worth replacing Oberon for Titania/whoever in the future?

This guy, judging by saying that he wants to use Shingen later on, obviously wants to go on the offensive side. Not only that, but he also already has the way to defend himself if necessary: Gaia AW.
You are right on that we can't go giving general advice regardless of situation (would be pretty boring if we could), but this case being on hand, my approach seems fitting.

Also.. are we going to keep answering now by editing posts?

Speaking of which.. answering that question @FreeToPay
Yes, after you get Shingen, I'd use Titania AW instead of Oberon & cover for A frame with Ambush if you still don't have Hastur by that point.
As for before you get Shingen.. well, I guess you could EX Ambush as well, but you'd have to throw PF away. That's up to you, probably not too much difference in the end.

@Slashley, I didn't check your roster but are you usig atk down himes? Have you tried dropping them for more offense based attacker/buffers? The past norm was to opt for -40~50% atk/def down but it seems we're getting to the point you may as well drop atk downs and opt for full offensive because we'll have the hp to deal with the damage or we won't survive it unless we focus entirely on a defensive team.

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

the way i see it, average is pretty much someone's total power rating... other than that, there's far too many influences this game has to try and make a "standard for the average player"

between weapons and skill levels, whatever the gachas throw at you (free or paying), and when you started (cause that effectively locks you out of some powerful stuff), this game is far too random to try and set a "base line for an amount of power".

best we can really do is pretty much put out there what's the best stuff to look for at the time, but there's no true defining answer when it comes down to it... someone could possibly find a way to tank so hard, you barely lose HP, while others can nuke stuff to high hell in a turn.

this game pretty much boils down to "here's some random shit, make of it what you will"

wanna avoid the random factor as much as possible? get as much of the guaranteed stuff as you can. other than that, RNG can make you it's bitch when it wants to. case in point is how i STILL can't get a damn assault drop from the raids after over half a year, yet i pulled SSR left and right (a bunch of times for free).

i just don't have full potential yet... i never took the time to get any relic weapon yet (gonna change with the light ones here now), didn't run AQ too much, and my grids are at half the strength a lot of the frequent forumers are on here (yet i might have around the same potential assault caps)

There are still controllable factors anyone can manage but the matter in the fact is that not everyone will bother to use those features to the fullest because not everyone puts the same amount of time and effort into this game as others do. So when you got players going around saying things like the average player should be able to do cap damage or things like 1 shot AQ4 boss and expecting everyone else to play on their level while calling it the average, it can can come off a elitist, as if anyone who isn't on their level are treated as below average when clearly that player is simply above average. (Guaranteed me using the word elitist is going to trigger people.)

Originally Posted by Aidoru

There are still controllable factors anyone can manage but the matter in the fact is that not everyone will bother to use those features to the fullest because not everyone puts the same amount of time and effort into this game as others do. So when you got players going around saying things like the average player should be able to do cap damage or things like 1 shot AQ4 boss and expecting everyone else to play on their level while calling it the average, it can can come off a elitist, as if anyone who isn't on their level are treated as below average when clearly that player is simply above average. (Guaranteed me using the word elitist is going to trigger people.)

Are you really dragging this further? It was already explained that your definitions are simply not matching. Rather than the word 'average', I think the problem lies with the word 'player'. A player is supposed to refer to someone who plays game. And since this is a pretty grind-focused game, the player of such game is expected to do dem grind, right? That's probably the source of the clash of views.

I think he already mentioned that he's giving advice with drawing out the most of what one has access to on his mind. Obviously, that player's advice won't be cut for a casual. That's it.

hey guys, would like to hear your opinion as for which soul should i use for my fire team?
my current team is-
AW Ares, AW Svarog, Brynhildr, Enma
fire is kinda lacking in debuffs, so i'm stuck with enma that provide -15% attack and def debuff along with ambush as ex ability.. bleh
i've though about arc as she have attack debuff and cut damage, so it can help my team to survive more and have -35% in both attack and def debuff
another option was hercules, her -25% def debuff can help me to hit the cap along with ambush and enma, and also my team have some buffs so it can get her nuke ability a bit stronger
or maybe i should go for a different soul?

Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

hey guys, would like to hear your opinion as for which soul should i use for my fire team?
my current team is-
AW Ares, AW Svarog, Brynhildr, Enma
fire is kinda lacking in debuffs, so i'm stuck with enma that provide -15% attack and def debuff along with ambush as ex ability.. bleh
i've though about arc as she have attack debuff and cut damage, so it can help my team to survive more and have -35% in both attack and def debuff
another option was hercules, her -25% def debuff can help me to hit the cap along with ambush and enma, and also my team have some buffs so it can get her nuke ability a bit stronger
or maybe i should go for a different soul?

Considering it's fire, running defensive is kinda pointless...

Afaik Hercules is the single best soul for fire currently anyway.

Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

hey guys, would like to hear your opinion as for which soul should i use for my fire team?
my current team is-
AW Ares, AW Svarog, Brynhildr, Enma
fire is kinda lacking in debuffs, so i'm stuck with enma that provide -15% attack and def debuff along with ambush as ex ability.. bleh
i've though about arc as she have attack debuff and cut damage, so it can help my team to survive more and have -35% in both attack and def debuff
another option was hercules, her -25% def debuff can help me to hit the cap along with ambush and enma, and also my team have some buffs so it can get her nuke ability a bit stronger
or maybe i should go for a different soul?

You'd have to use Ambush either way.. I guess it's more a matter of whether you feel confident enough to go offensive. Joan goes well with fire coz she gives a survivability just enough to get fire with decent, but not game breaking damage actually make it through. You will have to cast aside the hope for a fast burst, tho. If only you had Mars...

Originally Posted by nonsensei

To be honest, I'm just genuinely curious why our standpoints are so different. And as that have led to numerous clash of views, it would be nice to somehow pinpoint what causes it.

From your perspective, I guess it's "Why is this guy saying that hitting burst damage cap is so hard when Bear just posted a video where he hits for 1.5m with a handicap?"

From my point of view, it's "Why are these guys so optimistic about hitting damage cap against 10 Def, when the numbers required for it are so insane?"

And also, what puzzles me greatly is... why is it that I'm able to hit 90-95% accuracy on current content with my damage calc, but 66-73%ish on Bear's video? Something that doesn't add up. The only thing I can think of is that there's something funny with Exceed, which is something we don't have yet. Like, if Exceed was (a+b)*(1+c) instead of (a+b+c) which I am calculating it as now. With a being base burst modifier (5 for SSR Hime), b being burst damage+ (such as 2 for PF), c being Exceed modifier. But no matter how many times I check, the DMM wiki just lists Exceed as the same thing as PF. If Exceed was multiplied, people WOULD notice. I mean, we're talking about the difference with a single Exceed FLB going from 7 to 7.4 (~6% increase) vs. 9.8 (40% increase). In other words, the damage cap is going further away from you with Exceeds than what you approach them (6% damage increase, 30% cap increase vs. 40% damage increase, 30% cap increase).

Originally Posted by Aidoru

@Slashley, I didn't check your roster but are you usig atk down himes? Have you tried dropping them for more offense based attacker/buffers? The past norm was to opt for -40~50% atk/def down but it seems we're getting to the point you may as well drop atk downs and opt for full offensive because we'll have the hp to deal with the damage or we won't survive it unless we focus entirely on a defensive team.

Ummm, not really? I mean, define Atk Down Himes? In the Ult Fire video I have Ryu-Oh and Snow Raphael. They have Atk Down too! But that's just Water for you. If you mean some purely defensive Hime, not in these videos at least.

Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

hey guys, would like to hear your opinion as for which soul should i use for my fire team?
my current team is-
AW Ares, AW Svarog, Brynhildr, Enma
fire is kinda lacking in debuffs, so i'm stuck with enma that provide -15% attack and def debuff along with ambush as ex ability.. bleh
i've though about arc as she have attack debuff and cut damage, so it can help my team to survive more and have -35% in both attack and def debuff
another option was hercules, her -25% def debuff can help me to hit the cap along with ambush and enma, and also my team have some buffs so it can get her nuke ability a bit stronger
or maybe i should go for a different soul?

When in doubt, go for Hercules. She's really fucking good these days. Herc might not ALWAYS always always be the right option to use, but she should be the best for by far the most. Joan and Andromeda give you lasting power, but start from Herc.