Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

I would thonk it’s reasonable to assume they wanna get good at the game... which means commitment. Casuals probably wouldn’t drop by the forum in the first place.

Even when considering the forum population here, those who plan to play all 6 elements are a minority. This argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I originally meant it to target the higher commitment players or basically veterans, considering that the person you replied to was Slashley.

I was responding to Slashley's advice to someone else. My response was not intended for HIM (an experienced player), but for his target audience (new players).

Basically when I use the word optimal: fast, efficient progression. That just means grid setups btw. I can’t say what you do with your himes

But optimal gearing will depend on the characters available to you. Why would you run an elemental advantage build if you don't have the characters to make each team effective--but you do have a single +100% eidolon? Suppose you have a budget of $150/year to spend on the game. Does an elemental advantage build make sense?

Still, when they’re capable you might as well tell them to collect all the good stuff while they can.

Notice that Slashley and I actually reached the same conclusion. My disagreement was with his reasoning.

Now the brick does bring the idea of a main element still.

You're getting it. Change your goal from clearing content (milestone-focused) to strengthening the team you use most (rewards-focused), from being as strong as possible to being as EFFICIENT as possible, and suddenly an elemental advantage build seems like a lot of extra work for only marginal gain. Notice that much of the difficult content in the game (e.g., high-difficulty Disasters, Guild Orders, Tower) is either multiplayer or gives rewards that aren't locked to an element (but ultimately, have to be spent on items whose benefits are locked to a single element). The end result of this is that those who rely on elemental advantage are able to farm faster, but this advantage in efficiency is completely offset by having to spread those rewards 6 ways.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Even when considering the forum population here, those who plan to play all 6 elements are a minority. This argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Breh. What?



Argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny is a huge stretch looking at that chart. Surely you notice that a majority (if you define it as 50%) of people aim to build >3 elements... right? That's grasping straws already.

There stands to point the reason why most people wouldn't choose to have 6 elements... because it's RNG. And das realistic. Remember I said ideally 6 elements, but I guess I have to add then: 3-4 is a good starting point.

You could reverse it at me saying I said only build 6 elements. But bruh. You know that's not what I'm saying.

But optimal gearing will depend on the characters available to you. Why would you run an elemental advantage build if you don't have the characters to make each team effective--but you do have a single +100% eidolon? Suppose you have a budget of $150/year to spend on the game. Does an elemental advantage build make sense?

Yes, if taking less damage from said content helps. Less % dmg, more impact on big numbers. That's not something a 100% eido helps you do in any way. And btw... friend 100%s.

And that's kind of assuming the random SRs you pull from jewcha sometimes don't help. Some of them are borken. Really borken.

You're getting it. Change your goal from clearing content (milestone-focused) to strengthening the team you use most (rewards-focused), from being as strong as possible to being as EFFICIENT as possible, and suddenly an elemental advantage build seems like a lot of extra work for only marginal gain. Notice that much of the difficult content in the game (e.g., high-difficulty Disasters, Guild Orders, Tower) is either multiplayer or gives rewards that aren't locked to an element (but ultimately, have to be spent on items whose benefits are locked to a single element). The end result of this is that those who rely on elemental advantage are able to farm faster, but this advantage in efficiency is completely offset by having to spread those rewards 6 ways.

2 things:

1. I get the feeling you undersell the power of elemental advantage.

2. Bricks are 2 monthly things. Surely if you do gemcha everyday you could build 6 grids from event weapons alone. Because as a reminder... you'll cap out your one element grid soon enough in terms of weapon skills.

You, my friend must be on some kind of amazing wonderdrug. where can i get this stuff? it must hit like a truck and bring you to a new world of sensual pleasure, otherwise i can not see how you could say with a straight face, that 39% of a voting are a minority.

Back to topic, Sana you are saying that majority of the players are casuals that don't care about stuff. OK, fair enough, i think the same, but then you give advice as if you are responding to said people. a casual that does not care about the game will NOT go out of their way to search for a forum, read the topics and ask for advice. This is something that people do that plan to invest atleast SOME time into the game.

Finishing an entire ssr grid is a long process, no need to hurry it up. Sure, strengthen first your strongest team that you can do all content more or less reliably. Then the team that complements your strongest/counters weakness. If you are light/dark you may just raise your second strongest instead.

Once you are finished just finish the next element grid, its not magic, its just a bit of daily effort (not much mind you) to slowly progress. Hell it took me almost a year before i started working on other elements, cause dark has no elemental weaknesses! even if you are very slow, 2 months for one elemental grid is very feasable, if you have an active union and manage to grab atleast some grails during UE it will speed up the process even further.

- The end result of this is that those who rely on elemental advantage are able to farm faster, but this advantage in efficiency is completely offset by having to spread those rewards 6 ways. -
^its not offset, you can easily do the content, you get elemental rewards for a specific element, which improve said element in the best case, if they are shitty, it will just become fodder for other elements. Its not spread 6 ways, its simply slowly improving over time.... in the first place, what exactly do you even do with stuff from events that are not your "main" element? if everything is slvl20 there is nothing else to do but improving other grids! you get so much stuff from regular events, what are you doing with it?!
From the way you phrase all your answers, you are basicly assuming someone is only logging in for the log in bonus, or if an event is running with your main element....

I really like how 82 responses are considered enough for statistical reference.

Originally Posted by LeCrestfallen

From the way you phrase all your answers, you are basicly assuming someone is only logging in for the log in bonus, or if an event is running with your main element....

Well that's actually the crux of his argument. It hasn't changed since last year. He's suggesting that you only have to play events that strengthen your own element. You can skip the events that don't help your 1 element. So you can play like 1 week every few months with his method and skip the other months. Since that's realistically all you need to do to max 1 element. Those are the type of people his advice is geared towards.

If you're planning/wanting to play more than 1 week every few months, or plan to build more than 1 element, you can generally just skip/ignore those posts like most committed players already do, and play the game with all the tools of the elements available to you then. :>

Honestly, the way i see it (and the way i always did my vids), you have to do what works best for you. cause it's not really wrong to think both ways.

Not everyone can have 6 elements to function with, but on the other hand, not everyone can run with just 1 element.

plus, like it was said, it still depends on the tools. I'm still hesitant to beef up my water and thunder teams cause the selection of kamihime I got isn't too good (especially in the case of water).

but on the other hand, elemental advantage is still roughly 50% more damage... including debuffs lowering defense and buffs increasing attack, that can add up to a lot. case in point is my fire team vs my light team. fire with elemental advantage is doing just as much as my light team without including any buffs and debuffs if my fire team has the advantage, but my light doesn't. and there's roughly a 50% difference in assault and maybe a 10% difference in elemental attack that my light team has over my fire one.

not to mention, you take less damage too. light is my best team, but barely survives crom GO cause you guessed it, no elemental advantage. So the trigger ends up killing off some of my team and it just gets worse from there the longer the fight takes. and this is with a Managarmr as a friend eidolon and a skill lv20 herc weapon (totaling 170% light elemental atk with my own eidolon). offense isn't always the best defense... i'm literally seeing a team of about 14k HP on average get it slowly nuked away until the rage mode hits and the trigger puts some girls out of their misery cause my only real defense is atk debuffs, sol's healing, and random tiamat summons.

This game is extremely RNG heavy, so causal or hardcore, you still have to play with what's thrown your way.

i still would get everything you can from events though, cause it's still free resources just waiting for those willing to grind them. And say you don't need an SSR weapon, it's still fodder for skill leveling which to be honest, is the best leveling resource in the game considering skill lv2 SSR guarantees success on anything, even a skill lv29 FLB weapon. And in the case of SSR eidolons (and the two noteworthy SR ones), even if you couldn't care less about the scenes, it's still 100 free magic jewels to do whatever with. Free/cheaper players need this more than anyone since they won't be buying anything anytime soon if at all.

one thing is certain, it's a problem if you can't clear the content. but the way I see it, how you clear the content is where the difference lies. If you can clear with a team rocking 25k HP, have at it. If you can clear with a team using 2 phantom lilims, then go for it (someone on DMM did something close to this in a rank 6 AQ vid in fact). It's ultimately up to you on how to build your team. All anyone else can do is just give suggestions on what might be the best options.

at the end of the day, you still have to play your own account. finding out what works and what doesn't is the key, cause this game has it's ways of shutting down any strategy. for all we know, there could be a boss trigger later on that instant wipes your front 5 girls if they do too much damage... learning how to adjust instead of sticking to one strategy is more helpful than you'd think.

Eh, I think it's silly to assume that the only people who want to come to these forums are people who want to focus on EVERY element. If somebody wants to focus solely on one or two elements, why not?

So far, you can clear any content with use one element. While that may change soon, that hasn't changed yet.

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

--
but on the other hand, elemental advantage is still roughly 50% more damage...--

Noooooooo it isn't. 45% added Elemental Atk is by no means anywhere near 50% more. Even without including any P2W Eidolons, we're talking about ~17% difference these days. That's about the same as the difference between 40% Def Down and 50% Def Down. If we compare double P2W Eidolons, the difference is ~12%. But this assuming that you have P2W Eidolons for both elements.

The only reasons to go elemental advantage is
1. Damage taken, which may or may not be an issue in the first place depending on content or team comp, as a good off-element team could have plenty of resources to deal with incoming damage.
2. Full Bursts, which double dip into elemental advantage quite significantly. This is particularly useful since most content has a single tough fight and this added damage can enable you to skip that part entirely.
(3. Tower requires on-element for full points, WHALE MOAR PLS)

Originally Posted by Slashley

Eh, I think it's silly to assume that the only people who want to come to these forums are people who want to focus on EVERY element. If somebody wants to focus solely on one or two elements, why not?

So far, you can clear any content with use one element. While that may change soon, that hasn't changed yet.Noooooooo it isn't. 45% added Elemental Atk is by no means anywhere near 50% more. Even without including any P2W Eidolons, we're talking about ~17% difference these days. That's about the same as the difference between 40% Def Down and 50% Def Down. If we compare double P2W Eidolons, the difference is ~12%. But this assuming that you have P2W Eidolons for both elements.

The only reasons to go elemental advantage is
1. Damage taken, which may or may not be an issue in the first place depending on content or team comp, as a good off-element team could have plenty of resources to deal with incoming damage.
2. Full Bursts, which double dip into elemental advantage quite significantly. This is particularly useful since most content has a single tough fight and this added damage can enable you to skip that part entirely.
(3. Tower requires on-element for full points, WHALE MOAR PLS)

Inb4 lvl 90 rags

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Inb4 lvl 90 rags

Was that for the first part? As far as I know, (true) Rag Disasters don't have any mechanics that trigger against off-element teams.

The point was, there is no real reason to be "angry" at one-element teams or giving advice for focusing on one element. At least, not yet. Even for (true) Rag Disasters, I've seen people say that you can just play support if you can't bring the damage output.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Was that for the first part? As far as I know, (true) Rag Disasters don't have any mechanics that trigger against off-element teams.

The point was, there is no real reason to be "angry" at one-element teams or giving advice for focusing on one element. At least, not yet. Even for (true) Rag Disasters, I've seen people say that you can just play support if you can't bring the damage output.

I was pointing more at the notion that lvl 90 rags are so difficult you need every bit of help you can get.

Playing support is a notion that works... provided your main element is light. Or anything with an appropriate amount of ascension. What happens if you main fire? You'd have to build a grid for light just to play support. Which kind of fits that into my idea a bit anyway, because you need enough HP and ascension on your grid to survive and heal enough, and have enough assault to not be a complete deadweight healer otherwise.

What got me bothered was the idea that building multiple elements can dilute the economy on raising a single element, because the only real diluted factors are time and whether you whale or not. And time wise... is your own call. It's still easier to account for the people who do gemcha everyday, rather than at their own whim because one is more consistent than the other.

If you do have a team that could rival the output of your main team... why not build 2? Or more? And even if you don't, why not prepare a grid for when that happens?