Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

That comment was more of a frustration remark in unregistered comparing Herc and Shingen solely by debuff cap when that's not exactly the main point of either in a fire team. --

Then, what is the point of either in a Fire team?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Then, what is the point of either in a Fire team?

The fundamental core concept of a fire team has always revolved around balancing your damage output and survivability, more so than other elements because many fire himes are so glass cannon in nature.

When you balance between Shingen or Herc for fire, you only really need to ask 2 questions.

1. Do I have the himes necessary to keep up with burst gen?

Because if no, running Shingen actually brings you a damage deficit, as she relies heavily on bursting for damage output, and the number of turns delayed from a FB can add up. Herc works better for teams that don't spam FB because that nuke combined with the damage output from her normal atks simply beats out Shingen's output with the same number of normal atks.

2. Do I survive longer than the enemy?

Which is... a grid thing. Shingen by nature means you're committing to full dps mode, while with Herc you have sort of a failsafe. Find yourself dying before you can kill the enemy? Run Herc so you have more turns to actually survive.

Quite frankly, it's nothing you're not familiar with. The only reason I bash the def break argument in this case is also something you've been familiar with: it's not the debuff itself I'm attacking, I'm attacking the mindset. This is especially true for fire, where the reality has been for a very long time, that your debuffs will not work and you'd have to pull your own weight in a WiUlt raid without them. And even if you do tell me that WiUlt is AABable cause it's a raid... you can't expect the same standards going into a WiRag raid going forward.

Yup, fair enough. But don't you think you should've posted that in the first place, instead of a short snap in his direction?

The only point I don't particularly agree with is "Find yourself dying before you can kill the enemy? Run Herc so you have more turns to actually survive" since while Herc has amazing survival ability when compared to Shingen (or any other Soul), she does nothing for the team. Herc being the last character standing usually doesn't help.
... I say that, but I was careless in Dark AQ5 Wave2 and got my frontline butchered, except Herc and Brahma with their self-damage cuts. And I still cleared Wave3, 3 manning+off-element Uriel. So yeah, having Herc survive by himself can help, but USUALLY it won't!

Anyway. The only solution to Fire's survival issues I've found is Amaterasu. Yeah, she won't help in debuff immune content, but she really is the lifeline of Fire otherwise. Dat Blind is just out of this world, really. Sadly not 100% hitrate even with elemental advantage and VoF, but it comes really close even without VoF. Close enough that out of three enemies, two ought to be Blinded just about every time, which means that you can just focusfire the non-Blinded one down - depending on the Overdrives. Amaterasu is also the second most important Hime during Lust, as Lust tends to be a group effort of "get Mars' Fire Res- up and VoF up, then debuff the boss." And a Blinded Lust is a whole different beast from a non-Blinded one.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Yup, fair enough. But don't you think you should've posted that in the first place, instead of a short snap in his direction?

The only point I don't particularly agree with is "Find yourself dying before you can kill the enemy? Run Herc so you have more turns to actually survive" since while Herc has amazing survival ability when compared to Shingen (or any other Soul), she does nothing for the team. Herc being the last character standing usually doesn't help.
... I say that, but I was careless in Dark AQ5 Wave2 and got my frontline butchered, except Herc and Brahma with their self-damage cuts. And I still cleared Wave3, 3 manning+off-element Uriel. So yeah, having Herc survive by himself can help, but USUALLY it won't!

Anyway. The only solution to Fire's survival issues I've found is Amaterasu. Yeah, she won't help in debuff immune content, but she really is the lifeline of Fire otherwise. Dat Blind is just out of this world, really. Sadly not 100% hitrate even with elemental advantage and VoF, but it comes really close even without VoF. Close enough that out of three enemies, two ought to be Blinded just about every time, which means that you can just focusfire the non-Blinded one down - depending on the Overdrives. Amaterasu is also the second most important Hime during Lust, as Lust tends to be a group effort of "get Mars' Fire Res- up and VoF up, then debuff the boss." And a Blinded Lust is a whole different beast from a non-Blinded one.

Morning irritation + annoyance does things, though that's an issue I have to fix myself...

Well, I'd say your dps takes quite a sharp dip if either Herc or Shingen dies. That's both a PF and a fast BG slot lost, which can really hurt your damage output if they die early. Shingen herself only does a little bit more than Herc for the team to be honest, since most of the fire girls that exist (and the future ones) tend to have pretty decent DATA output already, so what's only left is whether the soul herself can catch up... so Herc and Shingen is a choice that bends towards Shingen the more DATA/ BG himes you have.

I'd present an alternative solution to fire's issues... which really only works if you have willing friends/ onion members who also happen to be on discord with you: leave the damage to you while other people support your team with Joan Andro... with other elements. Of course, this is a strategy for raids with spacewhale fire users. Not the most fair in terms of who gets MVP, but it is the most efficient way of doing things.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Anyway. The only solution to Fire's survival issues I've found is Amaterasu.

Big brain solution: whale Summer Sol.



Also, fuck people who apply BP in the middle of stun to Dark Rags.

Originally Posted by KTA

Also, fuck people who apply BP in the middle of stun to Dark Rags.

I don't understand why ppl even bring BP to a D-rag in the first place. It has so many charges to where it's not a problem of facing fast ODs anyway.

It's why one shouldn't open those to the public.

Originally Posted by KTA

Also, fuck people who apply BP in the middle of stun to Dark Rags.

Wait, people manual Ult Dark? But why.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

I don't understand why ppl even bring BP to a D-rag in the first place. It has so many charges to where it's not a problem of facing fast ODs anyway.

Because one turn more before an Overdrive that's simply going to kill you isn't all that bad. I don't think I'd bring it as an EX skill still, but.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

It's why one shouldn't open those to the public.

I dunno, there's an argument to be made for Ult Water. Mayyyybe Ult Fire and Ult Light, but even those you can probably just power through. But for the rest? Eh, just AAB and open to public. Why bother?

If we need to use our soul expressly to buy extra turns for the whole team (or protect Uriel specifically), then the answer isn't Joan (or Roland) because...?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Wait, people manual Ult Dark? But why.

Cause when you have the grid and team, its way faster, i remember nonsensei killing his own drag in 4 mins, with more people that isnt possible cause they screw your pace.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If we need to use our soul expressly to buy extra turns for the whole team (or protect Uriel specifically), then the answer isn't Joan (or Roland) because...?

Depends on context? Sometimes it is. Often times BP buys you two turns more, and Joan buys you one. Combining both can lead to even five turns more, but again, depends largely on content.

Originally Posted by Ikki

Cause when you have the grid and team, its way faster, i remember nonsensei killing his own drag in 4 mins, with more people that isnt possible cause they screw your pace.

Screw with pace how? And how is it slower when there is more damage output out there? If Ult Dark was still bugged and you could just ignore the damage cut mechanic, then sure. But as it is...