Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by kyc992

When prepping for tower events, do people level all their Rs to MLB max level and SRs to LB3 and maxed level(60)? Or is just unlocking the skills enough for hime leveling.

Max them all if you can pls

Originally Posted by Slashley

It's absolutely not 10x. It's probably closer to 2x, a rate that was never even used on DMM.

And because Jewels are so completely worthless for Rate Ups in Nutaku, it doesn't really matter when you spend them. The chances of getting a Rate Up is astronomically low. You want to use them now? Go ahead, you won't get the Rate Ups. You want to use them later? Go ahead, you won't get the Rate Up Hime.

I have a tendency to get rate-up SRs at least, but oddly enough yeah, most of my SSRs have come to me off-banner. Frey, Atum...I tried for them when they first came out, but I stumbled into them only a bit later on. When I think about it, I think the SSRs that I've actually gotten on rate-up were the limited ones I have, namely Thunder Michael (my rerolled starter), Santa Satan (trying for Christmas Perun and had to keep going), and Dark Amaterasu (trying for Konohana-Sakuya and failed). The latter two were with gold/coins, though. Pretty sure that everything else I have was either a random get or a miracle ticket.

Originally Posted by kyc992

When prepping for tower events, do people level all their Rs to MLB max level and SRs to LB3 and maxed level(60)? Or is just unlocking the skills enough for hime leveling.

If I can toss my 2 cents into the Tower Strategy discussion, I'd like to. These are my current thoughts and plans to help achieve max placement for this (and following) tower events.

What is the basic rules of Tower?

1) You can't use the same Hime for at least two days after.
2) There are fifteen floors and sixteen tickets.
3) You get tower points for clearing with elemental advantage.
4) You get tower points for clearing quickly.
5) There does not seem to be any debuff resistant content.

How should you tackle this event?

From the basic rules, two things stand out. You want bench depth in that element AND you want to kill quickly. To do this you need the best Himes, a lot of them, and you need to do great dps. Since we can't have all that (at least I can't; I'm not a space whale), and this is yet another Tower that is not my main element what can I do to achieve the best possible outcome given limited prep time and resources?

There are two main things I can do. I can raise all Fire Himes or I can work on the Weapon Grid.

By far the most important thing to do is to work on that weapon grid. It affects all teams and, if it's all assault, helps in clearing content quickly. There are three weeks left till the Wind Tower so that means there are 1200 base skill raises or 3000 upgraded (with grails and SRs) skill raises that you have before the event. You should be working trying to put as much into your Fire grid as reasonable. You should always raise your main as high as possible, but after that it should all go into that Fire grid. Find good assault SSRs and push them to skill level 20. If you use Hercules, MLB her axe and raise to skill level 20. That is the best possible bang for your buck as that's 30% element damage (at skill level 20) and at level 125 competes with base advent SSRs. If you have to use SRs raise them at least to level 8, and, if possible, raise them also to level 20. There will be one fire union event between now and the tower event. It will drop two SSRs, get them and raise them as high as possible, if you don't have 10 max fire SSRs already.

The next best thing to do is to make an honest assessment of your fire himes and figure out how many you want to raise to max level. I believe the optimum number is around your best 18. This allows you to build 6 teams of three, 4 teams of four or five and finally for top content 3 teams of six Himes that you'll use for high levels. You can use your other teams and plan on using your main (and alternate) for at least two or three floors of content. In the last tower, since thunder is my absolute worst element (in both Hime and Grid), I ended up having to use my Light, Dark, and Water teams to keep clearing content. I was able to get to floor 13 in the last tower, but didn't rank high because I kept having to fall back on off element teams. No shame in that, but tower rewards on element wins. In the weeks left, you should be able to put together rosters with your best 18 and make sure to raise them all to max level if possible. Sunday should be the day where you feed half elixirs into the Kamihime slot to help those Himes get to max possible level. You will probably be limited by books and stars, but that's expected.

After that I'd also work on raising a set of your best fire accessories (at least 6) that you can swap around from team to team to help the event. This will just take time during the event, but there's no penalty to do it, so plan on doing it. Raise at least 6 and, if time and gems permit, try and make them valuable SSRs. Even a set of six Rs accessories will help tremendously in tower. Don't neglect this!!

If you do have most of this, you should have the basic back end work in place. Then it'll come to actual play strategy and how you put together teams for the actual event. You will want to look at what gets thrown at you and if you need any special counters (if it's a debuff monster look to place cleanse in either the EX or on a Hime, if they buff themselves get dispel, AOE damage look to get a damage cut, etc.). You'll also want to make sure you spread out and prioritize DEF down for the event. Hercules axe gives you 25%, and Ambush and Sniper Shot will get you to 45% for most of the content, but if you have to take dispel or cleanse try and place a Hime in that list with DEF down. You want to hit as hard as possible for the event. Don't try and turtle up; teams that do that aren't helpful. It's okay for the Himes to go down (as long as you still have three at the end of the battle).


Dejnov.

If your weapon grid is SR based, it's actually the worst move possible to prioritize the soul weapon SL over assault SL. ESPECIALLY if you intend to keep the latter at SL 8 max.


You can upgrade the soul weapon if your goal is also the long term, but for maximum efficience in the short term, you should keep the soul weapon SL at with 5 or 6 less levels than your assault SR.

A few minor corrections:

Originally Posted by Dejnov

5) There does not seem to be any debuff resistant content.

For the most part, while the majority of the tower is debuffable, there are a few floors where you'll run into highly debuff-resistant mobs.
Typically floors 8, 11, & 15.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

You want bench depth in that element AND you want to kill quickly.

The points from turn counters should probably not be the focus for beginners and anyone that's having trouble just completing the tower or finishing all the missions. For example, if you have an important hime that might let you complete a prior floor faster, but then you can't use her in a more troublesome floor later on for yourself, you should forget about the turn counter and just save for the more difficult floor. The medals lost on turn counters are minor, while the medals lost on failing missions is much more severe. So I wouldn't worry too much about turn counters on later floors, especially when you're having difficulties in just finishing the missions to begin with (though the first ~8 floors or so, all you really need is Solomon+soul wpn to clear with max turn points). Turn counter points are mostly for the whales who have great bench depth as you mentioned, and thus have that advantage of never lacking the himes needed to tackle any particular floor quickly.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

It's okay for the Himes to go down (as long as you still have three at the end of the battle).

Except for all the ones that require 5 alive.
You also mention turtle teams as being bad. Well again going back to bench depth, this will depend from player to player. For those who lack all that many himes to begin with, they might do better throwing in a planned-out turtle team on a later floor, where going all out offensive might be more risky for them and cause a mission to fail. So if you're short on viable himes, you have to come up with different setups and might have to sacrifice speed on a floor or two by using a slow/turtle setup because you have to save your other himes to clear all the missions in a later floor. Again keep in mind, the medals from clearing missions are much higher than any lost from turn counters. So it really just depends on the roster for each player, while revolving around what strats they plan to employ on each floor to clear all its missions with what they have.

Originally Posted by Keyen

You can upgrade the soul weapon if your goal is also the long term, but for maximum efficience in the short term, you should keep the soul weapon SL at with 5 or 6 less levels than your assault SR.

Uuuh, have you run the maths on that? Since that doesn't sound quite right. Offensive Soul weapons are 1% Elemental per skill level, whileas Assault weapons are 0.5% per skill level.

With 9 SR assault, you start with 27% assault.
With elemental advantage and, let's say, 2x 40% eidolon (very low) and the base 10% from soul weapon, you are already at 135% elemental damage.

Also, you need twice as much R for increasing SSR SL compared to SR SL.

A quick calcul:
Let's say everything is SL 1. You have 136% elemental bonus and 31,5 assault.


You spend 2 R for assault. You get 2 SL, and you are now at 32,5% assault. The comparative gain was 0,76% damage.

Instead, you spend 2R on soul weapon. You get 1 SL, and you are now at 137% elemental bonus. The comparative gain is 0,42%.



Even if everything is SL 8, it's still in favor of assault:
SL 8 assault is 63%, elemental bonus is 143%

You spend 16 R for assault. You get 2 SL, and you are now at 64% assault. The comparative gain was 0,613% damage.

Instead, you spend 16R on soul weapon. You get 1 SL, and you are now at 144% elemental bonus. The comparative gain is 0,41%.



Even at SL 19:
SL 19 assault is 112.5%, elemental bonus is 154%

You spend 38 R for assault. You get 2 SL, and you are now at 113.5% assault. The comparative gain was 0,47% damage.

Instead, you spend 38R on soul weapon. You get 1 SL, and you are now at 155% elemental bonus. The comparative gain is 0,393%.


If you have better eidolon (or friend eidolon) than 40% ones, it's worse.

Originally Posted by Keyen

Even at SL 19:
SL 19 assault is 112.5%, elemental bonus is 154%

You spend 38 R for assault. You get 2 SL, and you are now at 113.5% assault. The comparative gain was 0,47% damage.
Instead, you spend 16R on soul weapon. You get 1 SL, and you are now at 144% elemental bonus. The comparative gain is 0,393%.

If you have better eidolon (or friend eidolon) than 40% ones, it's worse.

Nice!! Thank for the update... I will work on base assault first and then look to elemental raising!!

Dejnov.


P.S. I understand the skill level 19 SR and skill level 19 on the Herc Axe (base 154% raised to 155%). For the same Rs spent, it's better to raise SRs as high as possible, then raise SSRs that are not element, and lastly raise the element axe last (fastest bang for buck raise strategy). But I do agree that raising low level Rs is much more valuable than raising a high level element axe.

I forgot to modify the data for the axe in your quote. I copy pasted too quickly. It's corrected. I didn't do the calculations at how many less levels you should keep the axe for perfect balance because i'm too lazy to do it (and the gain is minimal anyway), but my estimate of 5-6 is probably not too far of the mark and if anything, underestimated.

Originally Posted by Keyen

With 9 SR assault, you start with 27% assault.
With elemental advantage and, let's say, 2x 40% eidolon (very low) and the base 10% from soul weapon, you are already at 135% elemental damage.

But you can, and probably should, use a Character Atk Eidolon on yourself for the HP. Assuming you're running a 100% Friend Eidolon, which you probably will in all content that matters in any way.

I... don't really even want to look at those maths, really. If your premise is wrong, then the rest crumbles. Another two things with the premise, please add base 100% to the calculations, it makes a difference. And also, you're calculating at VERY low Assault numbers, which I reaaaally don't think will apply to anyone who has played for more than a couple of months. Well, that one can be debated, but to be noted is that anyone that new is unlikely to have many weapons that will stay in their Grid - except maybe a Soul weapon if they've somehow managed to leech enough.