Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Whileas thisoesn't even try to. It's just waving a white flag and saying that "Hey, this team of mine is probably correct, but I cannot base it around any sort of math." Which is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.

Since you previously mentioned Svarog, here's a bit of number crunching:
Assuming 2.3 ability dmg modifier for Svarog nuke (probably the absolute minimum you'll ever have, should be higher in practice) and not enough damage to hit 300k/hit cap (which we prob will at that point, but lets go with that for simplicity) and your 180% assault. For simplicity i'll just take nuke on CD = 3 hits / 3 turns = 2.3 additional atk worth of damage each turn. So not completely disregarding the stackable atk buff, we already get a damage increase of 7.3/5 = 46%. That's more than Nike adds at turn 12. By then Svarog also adds 40% assault, resulting in 3.2/2.8 * 1.46 = 67% increase in damage.

But now once again, this assumes all other 4 are doing nothing but attacking, which would be ridiculous. You'd have to simulate a specific team setup, then compare it to another specific team setup, otherwise all that number crunching has no context at all. Even then, you can only calculate the exact CONSISTENT damage if you were using all skills on CD, which once again, doesn't say much. Pacing is so important in Kamihime (unless you only AAB) and Nike offers 0 options for that (besides the double full burst i guess). I love theorycrafting and number crunching, but it is only as good as your model and getting a precise model for every situation is impossible / infeasible. That's why playtesting is so much more important. Leave number crunching for things that are consistent and where the results actually have practical relevance, but don't rely on them stubbornly for more complex problems like this. Sure, do the math to get an idea of what it does/adds, but until you test it or see it in action, you'll never know how well a KH really fits into a team.

Once again, not saying Nike is useless, she definitely has her Niche uses, but putting a slowpoke like her into one of the fastest element teams for content that probably doesn't even last 10 turns most of the time might not the brightest idea.

Originally Posted by Slashley

How much did you whale again~?
Just a reminder, when talking about perfect teams, it's not that easy. Miracle Tickets will get you a good way in a single element, at least.

Light's my main, so I'm confident a little dolphin like me will be able to manage. Thanks for the concern though.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

--
Assuming 2.3 ability dmg modifier for Svarog nuke (probably the absolute minimum you'll ever have, should be higher in practice) and not enough damage to hit 300k/hit cap (which we prob will at that point, but lets go with that for simplicity) and your 180% assault. For simplicity i'll just take nuke on CD = 3 hits / 3 turns = 2.3 additional atk worth of damage each turn.

While 1.3x is the upper end Svarog's first skill, fair enough (1.15 would be more on the average side).

Originally Posted by blubbergott

So not completely disregarding the stackable atk buff, we already get a damage increase of 7.3/5 = 46%. That's more than Nike adds at turn 12. By then Svarog also adds 40% assault, resulting in 3.2/2.8 * 1.46 = 67% increase in damage.

Since you started with 7.3, we could just keep to that, no? 7.3 * 3.2/2.8 = 8.34.
As a reminder, off-element Light Nike is 4 * 4/2.8 = 5.71, and as such, significantly lower than on-element Svarog. I'm not surprised.

So, next question. What about the rest of the team?

Originally Posted by Slashley

So, next question. What about the rest of the team?

Did you even read my 2nd paragraph?

About abi multiplier, you forgot any other abi buffs that factor into that, in practice, it'll be closer to x3 than x2.3. Once again showing how many things you'd have to consider for a precise model. Your maths can be 100% correct, if the model doesn't reflect the actual use, it's still completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

Did you even read my 2nd paragraph?

I did, yes.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

About abi multiplier, you forgot any other abi buffs that factor into that,--

Such as what?

Originally Posted by Slashley

I did, yes.Such as what?

Assist, accessories, potentially eleborate (though not sure if there are fire ones already). Just watch any dmm videos, Svarog nukes always hit for ~2.5-3x the attack damage. But well, that's besides the point anyways and you managed to successfully ignore the main point of my post, so I don't see much reason why I should bother to argue anymore.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

Assist, accessories, potentially eleborate (though not sure if there are fire ones already).

... assist what?
Eleborate...?

Accessories... well, those could add up to 45% modifier. But is that actually smart? I haven't mathed Svarog out as I don't have her, but considering that her ability hits "only" three times and already has a 200% modifier, that sounds doubtful. Of course, getting a 3x Ability is miles more likely than even getting 2x Atk up.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

But well, that's besides the point anyways and you managed to successfully ignore the main point of my post, so I don't see much reason why I should bother to argue anymore.

As I said before, it's possible to get rough bearings, just difficult. But hey? Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Slashley

... assist what?
Eleborate...?

Accessories... well, those could add up to 45% modifier. But is that actually smart? I haven't mathed Svarog out as I don't have her, but considering that her ability hits "only" three times and already has a 200% modifier, that sounds doubtful. Of course, getting a 3x Ability is miles more likely than even getting 2x Atk up.

Svarogs assist is ability damage. Elaborate are the ability damage weapon skills, though (besides them being rather terrible) I don't think there are any good fire weapons that have it as 2nd skill /3rd skill as of yet. Could be wrong though. People could potentially run Hephaestus, who has a 30% buff too.
Ofc you wouldn't aim for ability accessories, but given how common they are, you're bound to have some of them in your 5 acc slots. All that adds up in the end.