Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Ikki

Thunder doesnt need a healer atm, you just need a good grid, and sol on thunder is situational (when you need her dispel and cleanse, the heal is a bonus), people make the mistake of getting used to her (getting used to healing actually, screwing your dmg output by yourself).

same could be said about fire really, but even then, the "leeroy jenkins" strategy only goes but so far. it's honestly why my fire team has failed a few times... dishing out 50k-70k a hit but getting killed cause the damage they take is at least 1/3rd of their HP even with 40% atk down debuffing they simply lack the HP to survive or the healing gets outdamaged

but in those cases, that's where joan to tank and give slight healing could help (or perun if you wanna go that route for thunder). heck, the ult catastrophes are starting to show that damage isn't everything and it only solves most of the challenge

best damage doesn't make the best grids/teams, it's a mix of damage and survivability.

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

same could be said about fire really, but even then, the "leeroy jenkins" strategy only goes but so far. it's honestly why my fire team has failed a few times... dishing out 50k-70k a hit but getting killed cause the damage they take is at least 1/3rd of their HP even with 40% atk down debuffing they simply lack the HP to survive or the healing gets outdamaged

but in those cases, that's where joan to tank and give slight healing could help (or perun if you wanna go that route for thunder). heck, the ult catastrophes are starting to show that damage isn't everything and it only solves most of the challenge

best damage doesn't make the best grids/teams, it's a mix of damage and survivability.

In your case its a grid problem cause most veterans i know can solo every single content of the game (including this water rag) without any issues and without healers, and about "the "leeroy jenkins" strategy only goes but so far" its quite the opposite, healing can only get you so far, you wont be able to outsustain most content, the game isnt designed like that and in dmm its even more dmg oriented than before, the sustain/defensive mentality you and a lot of people have is heavily punished in the future and even now.

Originally Posted by Ikki

In your case its a grid problem cause most veterans i know can solo every single content of the game (including this water rag) without any issues and without healers, and about "the "leeroy jenkins" strategy only goes but so far" its quite the opposite, healing can only get you so far, you wont be able to outsustain most content, the game isnt designed like that and in dmm its even more dmg oriented than before, the sustain/defensive mentality you and a lot of people have is heavily punished in the future and even now.

which is why is said "a mix of damage and survivability"

no matter how you look at it, it still boils down to these two things:

-can you deal enough damage to the boss?
-can you survive attacks from the boss?


in my case, it could be a grid issue, but not in the form of damage (again, 50k-70k damage PER HIT... that's quite a lot per round). it'd be in the form of HP.

every single team thrives on this to some point... it might be 50% damage and 50% suvivability for some cases, it could be 99% damage and 1% suvivability in others... but can never forgo survivability entirely for the harder content unless you're packing something quite strong like 120%-130% assault and double 100% eidolon or something... (even then, most players have access to 40%-60% eidolons anyway)

and keep in mind that while some players have made it to points where they can solo even the catastrophes, not everyone has gotten there the same way. in the process of building your way to that point, your tools might be different. in my case, i don't have amaterasu (she'd be a big help) or summer sol, so it's either bryhildr on her own, or with help from sakuya for the most part for my fire team, and that's if i can even debuff (wind ult gives huge middle finger to debuffers). it may not be a case of healing for them, but for 7-8k HP to get shredded through is kinda ridiculous.. especially since that tends to be the range people stop getting defenders if they even have them

my point is, this game is about strategy. maybe the kill it before it kills you thing can work at times, but for some cases, it doesn't

I agree with Ikki here. In your case, it's definitely a grid issue if your hp gets depleted so easily. Ideally, you're supposed to have 10k+ hp on every team at this point to safely clear content or at least around 10k. Healing won't get you anywhere if the boss decides to nuke your himes down with 1 hit, higher hp on the other hand will. And so will more damage since the boss dies faster & has fewer chances to actually do as described before.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

I agree with Ikki here. In your case, it's definitely a grid issue if your hp gets depleted so easily. Ideally, you're supposed to have 10k+ hp on every team at this point to safely clear content or at least around 10k. Healing won't get you anywhere if the boss decides to nuke your himes down with 1 hit, higher hp on the other hand will. And so will more damage since the boss dies faster & has fewer chances to actually do as described before.

i did say i might need more defenders on my fire grid, but from what ikki was saying, i pretty much took it as "get more damage cause suvivability gets punished now", cause this was said here:

Originally Posted by Ikki

most veterans i know can solo every single content of the game (including this water rag) without any issues and without healers, and about "the "leeroy jenkins" strategy only goes but so far" its quite the opposite, healing can only get you so far, you wont be able to outsustain most content, the game isnt designed like that and in dmm its even more dmg oriented than before, the sustain/defensive mentality you and a lot of people have is heavily punished in the future and even now.

and again, i never said "outsustain your opponent", i said "you need damage and survivability"

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

and again, i never said "outsustain your opponent", i said "you need damage and survivability"

Well for starters not having enough hp is a grid problem, so nothing wrong with what i said there XD and about the outsustain part i said it cause you overate healers too much, they are just a step up, not your goal, keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by Ikki

Well for starters not having enough hp is a grid problem, so nothing wrong with what i said there XD and about the outsustain part i said it cause you overate healers too much, they are just a step up, not your goal, keep that in mind.

current hardest content needs some form of healing, even if it's something like joan's HP regen (which is how my thunder team is still doing okay).

i'm not making healing a top priority (i did say D'art and herc's weapons are better, which they clearly are), but little to no healing is a very quick way to die unless you have really high stats and some insane assault/elem damage values, which is why fire and thunder tend to be damage race teams.

if healing was really a priority, i'd get andromeda with regen, toss in sol, and find a friend ygg to use with my own.... that's not the case nor was how i tried to make things seem. what i was simply saying is that healing/tanking (in other words, survivability) shouldn't be overlooked

hell, it's why i'm not looking forward to the light ult rag, even though i JUST got osiris... that boss is pretty much one mode change the whole fight so you're gonna get nuked a lot (plus i recall it having at least 30 mil HP). and since light is my main team, i'm going after regalia like crazy for that

Originally Posted by nonsensei

It's not exactly wrong, tho. Just think about that bosses usually got 2 orbs. You need quite the damage to get her out of rage coz if you don't, she will keep spamming rage burst every 2nd turn. And most rage bursts aren't really something that you want to keep getting right into the face.
Let's just leave the rag soloing aside coz the arguement that there's no need to solo it - while debatable in some cases - is valid. But think about the AQ4 boss for example. You simply can't outheal her rage burst & her rage meter is pretty big, so you need to dish out enough damage to stun her in pretty limited time. And you also need hp to avoid getting one-shot by those coz losing 3 himes each burst isn't funny. Alternatively, think about the current advent rag: if you can't beat her in several turns, you're as dead as a nit 'cause holy hell, those bursts.

inb4 more bosses pull that one gimmack (it was either Vritra or Rahab) and nuke you non-stop cause they have only 1 orb

just got my awakened Hades to level 75 and finished the advent already lol
gotta say, i like her new sprite, she looks great


And I have been deceived by google translate again, I thought death spear turns AoE once she reaches level 75 but apparently not

it does get that combo atk rate down added though, which is pretty nice

Originally Posted by BlazeAlter

just got my awakened Hades to level 75 and finished the advent already lol
gotta say, i like her new sprite, she looks great


And I have been deceived by google translate again, I thought death spear turns AoE once she reaches level 75 but apparently not

it does get that combo atk rate down added though, which is pretty nice

I am more jealous about your Dark Loli Pluto...
Still need to replace Beelze... (hopefully I have more luck with Chernobog...)


Already finished? How many HE did you use?

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

i did say i might need more defenders on my fire grid, but from what ikki was saying, i pretty much took it as "get more damage cause suvivability gets punished now", cause this was said here:

It's not exactly wrong, tho. Just think about that bosses usually got 2 orbs. You need quite the damage to get her out of rage coz if you don't, she will keep spamming rage burst every 2nd turn. And most rage bursts aren't really something that you want to keep getting right into the face.
Let's just leave the rag soloing aside coz the arguement that there's no need to solo it - while debatable in some cases - is valid. But think about the AQ4 boss for example. You simply can't outheal her rage burst & her rage meter is pretty big, so you need to dish out enough damage to stun her in pretty limited time. And you also need hp to avoid getting one-shot by those coz losing 3 himes each burst isn't funny. Alternatively, think about the current advent rag: if you can't beat her in several turns, you're as dead as a nit 'cause holy hell, those bursts.