Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Funnily enough Light Nike work best with slow teams (so not very offensive ones), because otherwise she would slow everybody down, she's like full support that you wouldn't take to party, because she just doesn't work in it...

Whoa whoa whoa... hold on there, there must be some confusion going on around here. Light Nike doesn't slow anyone down and she's very offensive. She just takes a while to get to thermo nuclear power level. She doesn't drain her own amulets like pluto does her blocks, so you don't have to wait for her or anything like that. This is the same with metatron AW or any other power houses. The problem with these isn't that they "slow the team" down, but rather they are all competing for one spot on the team, a spot that is generally best taken by Lugh because of how ridiculously fast she can build up her power (granted, at the cost to her own health). But if you are going to be bringing Tish, she can easily carry anyone that you don't have to actually wait for anyways (the other two - Michael and Iris - are just undisputed).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whoa whoa whoa... hold on there, there must be some confusion going on around here. Light Nike doesn't slow anyone down and she's very offensive.

I may be mistaken here, but literally everyone in meta light team has some means of generating BG. There are some used that does not, but they are mostly used for provided utility (for example Sol AW). When you look at light it's ridiculous that pretty much every new light hime has means of generating BG faster, even goddamn Eros got +20 BG on affliction block.

Is Shamash+Raphael+Archangel a good start or should I keep rerolling for Managarmr?

Originally Posted by Gludateton

I may be mistaken here, but literally everyone in meta light team has some means of generating BG. There are some used that does not, but they are mostly used for provided utility (for example Sol AW). When you look at light it's ridiculous that pretty much every new light hime has means of generating BG faster, even goddamn Eros got +20 BG on affliction block.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whoa whoa whoa... hold on there, there must be some confusion going on around here. Light Nike doesn't slow anyone down and she's very offensive. She just takes a while to get to thermo nuclear power level. She doesn't drain her own amulets like pluto does her blocks, so you don't have to wait for her or anything like that. This is the same with metatron AW or any other power houses. The problem with these isn't that they "slow the team" down, but rather they are all competing for one spot on the team, a spot that is generally best taken by Lugh because of how ridiculously fast she can build up her power (granted, at the cost to her own health). But if you are going to be bringing Tish, she can easily carry anyone that you don't have to actually wait for anyways (the other two - Michael and Iris - are just undisputed).

Originally Posted by Gludateton

I may be mistaken here, but literally everyone in meta light team has some means of generating BG. There are some used that does not, but they are mostly used for provided utility (for example Sol AW). When you look at light it's ridiculous that pretty much every new light hime has means of generating BG faster, even goddamn Eros got +20 BG on affliction block.

New hime:

Tishtrya - Ally 50% TA, Passive Self 10BG on use of an Ability
Takeminakata - GTA for 3T
Michael AW - Party 20BG on 7CD, and then Party 20BG on Burst
Metatron AW - Instant Burst. Her unique mechanic also allows her to do up to 3 consecutive Bursts in a row.
Lugh - Spammable 400k Nuke that gives Self 20BG, and gets powered up for 2T after burst to do 700k Nuke & gives 30BG. Currently one of the Top fastest hime in game, if not THE fastest.
Iris - Spammable Self Unique Buff button that also gives Self 10BG. After activation of her unique buff she can benefit from DA/TA/Enthusiasm(Zeal w/o DoT) for fast BG on top of other broken buffs.
Michiru - Self DATA up. Passive taunt against ALL enemies & DATA boost against Dark enemies.
Hastur - High Passive DATA boost base on number of her gimmick tokens.
VD Baal - Party 30% TA. Self GTA after Burst. Passive Party 5BG every time she scores a DATA.
Eros AW - Party 20BG whenever an Affliction is blocked. Bursting will reset her Affliction Absorption skill's CD, giving you more opportunity to generate BG.

Existing Hime:
Vishnu - 10BG on Ability usage, with TWO of her Abilities being on 1CD, on top of one of them having a Self Stackable 20%/stack DATA buff. Probably the next fastest hime closely after Lugh & Fire Freyr.

Old hime rebalance:
Shamash - Increased Taunt to her Intercept skill on top of gaining a Guaranteed Blob Eater on Burst.
Freyr - Self 20BG Nuke. Up from 15 before rebalance. Also gains Echo dmg on Burst.
Satan - GDA becomes GDATA, no longer locking her out from TA.
Artemis - Self 20BG after Burst, on top of her self (upgraded) buff may now also buff a chosen ally at the same time.


Slow hime

Sol AW - ... pikan?
Raphy AW - Debuff slave. Blob eater.
Tsukuyomi - Former debuff slave (Er... Still kinda is). Gains Echo dmg after Burst after rebalance. Also receives a new Passive that makes her practically invincible against all enemies that like to spam Poison DoT: Self Heal on Dark Dmg.
Atum - Gets a very powerful toolkit after rebalance: Single Ally 50% Vigor, skill CD resets on Burst.
Athena - Currently one of the most powerful tank in game
Nike

So... Only 5 hime that are as slow as Nike, with only Raphy AW who is the only one who's hardly more useful than Nike in terms of utility.

Here's the problem with Nike that made her benched by practically every Light vets with a decent roster on DMM, which is in fact already stated by yourself:
She takes forever to warm up. Even by non-Light's standard. And then what she brings to the table, 120% party assault, is easily replaceable. Just think about what you can do during these 12T she's warming up. Why should I bring her when I have Sol / Atum / Athena to keep my team at full hp to abuse my Vigor grid on top of keeping me alive? Why should I bring her over Tsukuyomi who can do easy 600~800k Echo dmg every 3~4T when she bursts (and that's not counting her own nukes against Dark enemies) while providing some nice debuff such as her powerful Blind in a chain gun build? Think about the opportunity trade-off of using her vs the others. Not saying Nike is weak, she's quite nice for beginners~average players in dealing with GO and AQ. But in the real end game such as Tower, Arena (Dummy Spanking) and High Rags, she's fails to entice as much as majority of the other Light SSRs do.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

I get a feeling this discussion is stalling if you're just gonna be aiming at my phrasing and context now.

Stalling what? I can't exactly answer your question with the way you phrased it. While your "yes to both" is quite confusing since there was no yes/no questions involved, I assume that it means that you agree about that.

Anyway, just what are you expecting me to say/comment about?

Originally Posted by Gludateton

I guess you don't like hybrids then. Don't bring you MMOs terms here though, because it doesn't work very well. Funnily enough Light Nike work best with slow teams (so not very offensive ones), because otherwise she would slow everybody down, she's like full support that you wouldn't take to party, because she just doesn't work in it... no, just don't use MMOs terms here.

So bring her in a slow party then. If we're talking the kind of ridiculous, unrealistic Light teams everyone exclusively keeps talking about, sure, she'll slow those down. If you ask me, that's fine. The teams will still be plenty powerful even with that slowdown, gaining something else in return. If that's not good enough, then you have one of those god-teams.


And yes, I know that basically all Light Hime have been buffed to hell and back. Still, in order for them to shine, you need to match them in somewhat specific ways. And if RNG hasn't blessed you with those synergies, then many of them don't get to shine.

It also amuses me how much we apply DMM knowledge to us, even though we're thoroughly fucked when it comes to acquiring these Hime. The latest gacha even outright states it: "Kamihime Release Weapons】(Star Coins gacha only) 20 times"
In other news, DMM doesn't know the future but they can get powercreeped Hime from Jewel gacha, whileas for us, it's the opposite - we know what's coming, but more or less can't get it. Want to grab one of those shiny Light SSRs? Too bad, not going to happen no matter how many months you save up, what you get will be entirely random and nigh-guaranteed to be old Himes. Yeah, it's entirely random for DMM players too, but the increased rate up makes a world of difference.


Why did I start babbling about that? Well, whatever. Going back to topic: MMO terminology. Why not? Many things for MMOs apply entirely to Kamihime. The difference is, here, you're the entire party instead of your friends/randoms. And this game is lacking an aggro mechanic, though this can be manipulated by a few specific Hime. To more or less effective means, depending.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is Shamash+Raphael+Archangel a good start or should I keep rerolling for Managarmr?

Archangel is quite useless (or was Light getting a multi-hit Hime as well...?). Shamash and Raphael can do things, but considering how Mana will assure you will have good friends, that should prove more useful.

If you're going to settle for double Light SSR Hime, then at least pick up Tish, I guess.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

--And then what she brings to the table, 120% party assault, is easily replaceable. Just think about what you can do during these 12T she's warming up.--

It's not like she does nothing during those turns. The Assault up is constantly ramping up. Or, you can entirely ignore the Assault and go for the double PF Full Burst. That choice is entirely yours to make, though.

So this thread became a "let's try making light nike sound good" thread, i thought the meme was dead, what a shame.

No where did I try to make nike sound good, I was simply stating that if you already bring Tish, who can speed up any "slow" (more like not-fast) hime, then you don't have to worry at all about nike slowing you down. I don't understand how that concept is so hard to get... Tish basically does Titania's job. As long as you don't have to actively wait for someone, then there's no way nike will slow down your team. The problem isn't that nike is bad, it's that she can't compete against Lugh, which doesn't mean a whole lot when not anyone else can either.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No where did I try to make nike sound good, I was simply stating that if you already...

I don't think Ikki is referring to your argument... ^ ^;

Originally Posted by Slashley

Snip

Basically.

Instead of pointing out I'm fishing for an answer (which I am)... I'd rather you take a look at what I had to say first. Which you clearly didn't, if your comment was aimed only at my fishing for an answer.

In any case, the aspects I listed could be labelled as team playing to a certain degree:

Reliable DATA = doesn't hold back team for full burst
Good burst dmg = doesn't hold back dmg
50% cut = helps everyone survive some strong nuke for 2t. No, cd is irrelevant in this discussion because if you bring that up, you're simply ignoring the skill itself in the first place.
Spike dmg with the buff = ... self explanatory

With that out of the way... I'm only going to ask you to look at the dark himes, and decide for yourself if there is a better team player for them. Keyword: better. Or hell, you could disprove me with the same listing of their attributes method I just did here.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Why did I start babbling about that? Well, whatever. Going back to topic: MMO terminology. Why not?

Because it sometimes works and sometime doe... wait, I am the one stupid here, it's not that MMO terminology doesn't work here, it's your understanding of term "team player". I mean in your eyes someone like Water Diana is not worthy calling "team player", because she's hime with combo rate up, instant burst and +20 BG on burst, that JUST happen to have Vigor buff, heal and DEF up. I mean if requirement is to not being capable on doing something on your own, then we're killing quite a number of "team players".
Anyway, back to Lego Girl (I won't be going over Light Nike dispute, it was taken care of enough by other people already). Can you give example of dark Kamihime that boosts team better than Pluto ?