Thread: Which Legendary Spirit is the best?

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Few problems here:

1. Arthur is purely offensive. She has no defensive skills.
2. Offense wins fights, and that's why many fights have a minimum recommended attack power. Consider a common scenario: several waves of 3x trash mobs followed by a boss. Against trash, priority #1 is whittling down their numbers so you have 1-2 mobs hitting you instead of 3. Good offense = straight damage mitigation. Priority #2 is killing the last two before they get a painful overdrive skill off. Again, good offense mitigates damage. Against a formidable boss, your goal is to not let the boss get off an overdrive skill during rage, because those moves often do massive damage + buffs/debuffs. Ideally, that means being able to get the boss from 100% rage to stun in 1 round. Again, that requires strong offense.
3. Defense without offense is risky. RNG is always your enemy because you can't anticipate it. 3 mobs alive means 3 chances for a triple attack, potentially on the same target. A triple attack from a powerful boss is almost always dangerous. Debuffs miss. The longer the fight drags on the greater the chance something will go wrong. Mordred is a good choice for sure, and Andromeda has Resurrection to recover from mishaps. But that just lowers the offensive bar a bit. Without sufficient offense you'll still lose, especially since healing is capped and damage is not.

1) You're right, Arthur is attack buffs. My bad. I'm thinking of Joan of Arc.

2) These scenarios seem unrealistic. Unless you're willing to drop mad cash, and max out a team of SSR hime/SSR weapons, you're not gonna have a good time trying to damage down a team of 3 tanky trash mobs before they overdrive you. I'm at 20k total team damage right now and there are still maps where I can't clear trash mobs efficiently in 1-2 turns, even with the stacking damage bonuses from double apocalypse + a fire team. And we haven't even gotten the really difficult maps yet.

Same with the tougher bosses. You're better off running someone with a mitigation skill to block their big overdrive spike and multiple healers to keep up your team than to rely on doing ten million damage every single cycle with skills to take them from 0 to rage and then rage to stun instantly every time.

3) It's true that healing is capped, but damage is also capped by money - unless you're willing to wallet warrior the shit out of this game, half your team is probably gonna be R/SR hime without ideal skills or the perfect element set and that's gonna put a FAR greater cap on your damage potential than your heroic soul choice. Yeah, its true that with enough damage you could probably bull through literally any fight, but if you're looking for the most cost effectiveness and early game value I wouldn't go any of the pure offensive heroic souls at all. Once you get to level 50 and have a choice of a second one, that's a different story.

I disagree about not starting with a offensive type soul. I've said it before but Nike is more than get you through current level content, Andromeda is just overkill as it stands. I would only bother to get her if you really want a full element party and don't have a healer of your current element. Going Arthur would be easiest as she has the best all-round damage and killing enemies is by far safer than trying to play defensive and heal. No need to worry about overdrive meters and healing when the enemy is already dead.

"Oh but what about raid bosses?"

They're irrelevant since you don't need to solo them and by the time you can solo them, you should already have enough Soul P for 2 or 3 Legendaries.

Originally Posted by VortexMagus

2) These scenarios seem unrealistic. Unless you're willing to drop mad cash, and max out a team of SSR hime/SSR weapons, you're not gonna have a good time trying to damage down a team of 3 tanky trash mobs before they overdrive you.

Have you done Expert Banquet of Angels today? That's a perfect example of mobs with high attack power and low HP/defense. Burning down one of them in a single round is quite easy. If you leave them all up, they HURT. Their overdrive is also very strong. You don't want to tank that, especially two at once.

3) It's true that healing is capped, but damage is also capped by money - unless you're willing to wallet warrior the shit out of this game, half your team is probably gonna be R/SR hime without ideal skills or the perfect element set and that's gonna put a FAR greater cap on your damage potential than your heroic soul choice.

Gawain (attack up + defense down) nearly doubled my damage. True story. And she's not even a legendary. Stacking the right buffs and debuffs yields immense synergy.

I never played the DMM version and I have no idea how the later content will go, but I play multiple accounts in this version and I've rerolled and played through levels 1-30 enough times to be a Union all by myself, all with different team setups. As such, I feel I can speak fairly confidently about what's required with what we have at the moment.

For the present game and the Event that just passed, literally any garbage team with enough health not to get 1-shot and a damage source will do. My first two accounts, 1 with a (Prereg) Beelzebub, Artemis, and Brynhildr and the other a reroll with Dark Amon and Tyr, could both easily do the Expert Event with no problems whatsoever at about 14k power. Neither have any real elemental focus (in terms of weapon grid farming) or a lot of thought put into them, they're just the first two accounts I had that got a decent roll so I leveled them up. They can also both solo Standard and Expert raids, although it takes a while because Expert has so much HP. It's really just me sitting there with autoattack on and waiting for cooldowns though, there's nothing "dangerous" about them at all.

In the teams I've rerolled since then I mostly just do the level 1 to 30 run to see if I get something good on the second 3000 jewel gacha and the SR ticket, but they're not fancy either. Usually just two SRs of the element I wanted to experiment with or an SSR+SR if I'm lucky. Again, within 48 hours and no time to farm up a weapon grid or anything special, they can get to 13k and be good enough to solo a Standard raid or get "babysat" through an Expert raid if I open it with one of my stronger accounts.

If any trash team can solo Expert Raids and runs within 3-4 days and literally no weapon grid farming, I can't see how (aside from efficiency of course) it's completely detrimental to pick whatever you want. You could of course be doing the content *faster*, but seeing as the stamina regenerates so slowly that isn't really the worst problem to have.

Originally Posted by President Ramu

If any trash team can solo Expert Raids and runs within 3-4 days and literally no weapon grid farming, I can't see how (aside from efficiency of course) it's completely detrimental to pick whatever you want. You could of course be doing the content *faster*, but seeing as the stamina regenerates so slowly that isn't really the worst problem to have.

Early game should be balanced differently than endgame. In addition, it doesn't sound like you ran with a standard setup: a motley crew of SRs and Rs. These games are designed to have a low barrier to entry, then ramp up the difficulty over time to induce players to pay to overcome each hurdle they encounter. You used an exploit to overcome one of those hurdles--access to stronger characters with better stats and better skills--but presumably the early game is balanced assuming you DON'T do that. Elemental matching only pays dividends with investment. In early game, it's actually more effective just to switch up your team / main-hand weapon to counter the element of whatever enemy you're facing, especially if you don't have access to strong eidolon effects.

Also, Ultimate difficulty should be coming up in Event 3 (2 weeks). I doubt it will be trivial.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Early game should be balanced differently than endgame. In addition, it doesn't sound like you ran with a standard setup: a motley crowd of SRs and Rs. These games are designed to have a low barrier to entry, then ramp up the difficulty over time to induce players to pay to overcome each hurdle they encounter. You used an exploit to overcome one of those hurdles--access to stronger characters with better stats and better skills--but presumably the early game is balanced assuming you DON'T do that. Elemental matching only pays dividends with investment. In early game, it's actually more effective just to switch up your team / main-hand weapon to counter the element of whatever enemy you're facing, especially if you don't have access to strong eidolon effects.

Also, Ultimate difficulty should be coming up in Event 3 (2 weeks). I doubt it will be trivial.

I literally never use Rs, I don't want them getting their gross peasant stats near my better characters.

Additionally, if you'll recall the thing I said in the post you just quoted, **the first two teams I created had no such assistance**. I had a Beelzebub from the pre-reg and the rest was all just whatever happened. That team can still crush the Event without any trouble, and I never even bothered farming a decent weapon grid for it. If I had put time into any of the given teams rather than just throwing them away when I got bored with them, they'd be exponentially stronger. And yet they still currently meet or exceed the needs of the content we have.

By the time the early game transitions into the late game a player will have had more chances at the gacha, more event equipment, and more Legendary Souls unlocked. But in the conversation I jumped into you're talking like if someone picks the wrong first Legendary they might as well throw away their account. I'm using the example of "literally any trash team being usable" to show people that no, it really isn't that big a deal and it probably won't be for some time yet.

The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.

Originally Posted by President Ramu

Additionally, if you'll recall the thing I said in the post you just quoted, **the first two teams I created had no such assistance**. I had a Beelzebub from the pre-reg and the rest was all just whatever happened.

I apologize. I don't know what a 'Beezlebub' is since I've never encountered it in-game (and therefore had no need to know what it is). But 3 SRs is still far and beyond what a random roll will typically get you. Did you really roll a double SSR team on your second roll?

By the time the early game transitions into the late game a player will have had more chances at the gacha

I'm somewhat skeptical that the end result of these jewel rolls will be multiple SSRs. The game's revenue stream relies on that not being the case.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.

You get a guaranteed SR from the 3rd panel prize, and you'd have to be truly unlucky to get none from the first two jewel gacha pulls. It's of course possible, but super unlikely. Plus of course the 4 guaranteed SRs that you get just from regular quest progression (Nike, Amon, Cybele and Baal).

I'm not saying everyone's going to pull a Sol+Tyr every time, but you can clearly put together a workable team even if you just used whatever the game gives you and slot in Nike as a healer in a pinch.

That's all I was trying to get across up there. I reroll constantly, but I dont hold out for multiple SSRs when I'm just trying something out. Any two SRs in the same element are usually enough for me, and I didn't even have that on my first account. Beelzebub carried that team on her back all the way through the first event, even with no decent Eidolon that you couldn't get from Material exchange, and that team is only slightly weaker than my Amon+Tyr death squad.

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Originally Posted by sanahtlig

I apologize. I don't know what a 'Beezlebub' is since I've never encountered it in-game (and therefore had no need to know what it is). But 3 SRs is still far and beyond what a random roll will typically get you. Did you really roll a double SSR team on your second roll?


I'm somewhat skeptical that the end result of these jewel rolls will be multiple SSRs. The game's revenue stream relies on that not being the case.

Ugh, I just lost my previous reply somewhere so this one's gonna be a bit brief.

http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--...83%96%E3%83%96

Basically, your first Legendary Soul is important from a time/effort standpoint, but nowhere near a huge deal. Whatever garbage Gacha-sama blesses you with is more than enough to clear Raids and Events as long as you put in some effort farming to highlight their strengths, but you'll always be able to get to a point where you can solo Expert and get that weapon grid filled out within a week. Which means you can farm the Expert level Events (for the near future), which means you can always hit some tier of viable while maintaining your free player status.

By the time harder content rolls around you'll be able to unlock a second or third Legendary Soul, and you'll have a much better idea of what works with what you've been given. But the ceiling on what's possible with what you have isn't going to change a whole hell of a lot based on which Legendary you pick first, as it's really just a matter of having enough health not to die while you wait for your healer's cooldown at the moment.

Originally Posted by President Ramu

You get a guaranteed SR from the 3rd panel prize

I think that's a guaranteed SR WEAPON. Not a guaranteed SR kamihime. An important distinction.