Thread: Solomon's Ring damage is affected by Eidolon bonuses

Originally Posted by President Ramu

This is wrong. This is an entirely wrong statement. You say it like it's true, but it's not. And if I didn't already know that you're full of shit, I'd believe you.

That's the problem here, you're not asking, you're telling. And what you're telling is false. If you want to pretend you're just "having a discussion", at least have the good sense to hedge your bets and not contradict yourself on the same page.

And that's why you're an unreliable narrator (see what I did there?). Because I prefaced all of that with:

If I understand correctly

And that's ignoring the fact that you haven't demonstrated your point at all (great job!) because you've been so busy demonizing me that the actual point of the topic slipped your mind.

- - - Updated - - -

Your point finally dawned on me, and I updated my explanation of the relative uselessness of Solomon as follows:

Solomon is passed over as an attacker because Solomon's Ring--her main damage ability--doesn't get the full benefit from eidolon elemental damage bonuses. It's very easy to achieve an 80% eidolon elemental damage bonus for your team element, so Solomon's Ring and thus Solomon herself lags behind in damage once you acquire SSR eidolons with elemental damage bonuses that match your team element (first 3 events). One workaround is to use eidolons that provide a character-based elemental bonus instead (which fully stacks with Solomon's Ring), but that lowers the damage output of your entire team, especially at higher weapon skill levels, and thus isn't a good trade-off.

Solomon is a fringe case with damage abilities that don't match her weapon element. Nonetheless, my understanding of the damage calculation was mistaken (specifically, that weapon skills buff characters of a given element, not elemental damage), so it's good that this fringe case exposed that. I'm surprised no one called me on that before.

Thus while your explanation was useful to me personally (because I fundamentally misunderstood the damage calculation), it probably isn't news to anyone else who's read up on game mechanics.

You're re-inventing the wheel. Japanese wiki already has sufficient information to piece together what one should expect from Solomon. She scales poorly into late game because of the difference in how character bonuses and element bonuses interact with assault skill stacking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You're re-inventing the wheel. Japanese wiki already has sufficient information to piece together what one should expect from Solomon. She scales poorly into late game because of the difference in how character bonuses and element bonuses interact with assault skill stacking.

It appears that character bonuses and assault skill bonuses fully stack with Solomon's Ring. Element bonuses (from eidolons) only partially stack. Otherwise I agree. The observed results are predicted in their entirety by the damage formula posted on the JP wiki, and thus are not novel.

So in theory you could build a team with Solomon and Takemikazuchi/Behemoth that enabled you to run tricolor Kamihimes with full damage AND in the process get significant bonuses to Solomon's damage. That's interesting, and maybe even relevant if you had Takemikazuchi and a bunch of powerful Kamihimes of her three elements (or if you had Behemoth and a mix of powerful kamis of her elements), but that seems like a really niche area to me, and I think most people would still be better off running Andromeda or Mordred in their teams.

Plus to maximize the tri-element Kamis you'd need a friends list full of people using the same Eidolon, which is pretty rare.

Originally Posted by VortexMagus

So in theory you could build a team with Solomon and Takemikazuchi/Behemoth that enabled you to run tricolor Kamihimes with full damage AND in the process get significant bonuses to Solomon's damage. That's interesting, and maybe even relevant if you had Takemikazuchi and a bunch of powerful Kamihimes of her three elements (or if you had Behemoth and a mix of powerful kamis of her elements), but that seems like a really niche area to me, and I think most people would still be better off running Andromeda or Mordred in their teams.

Plus to maximize the tri-element Kamis you'd need a friends list full of people using the same Eidolon, which is pretty rare.

I think you're overestimating the usefulness of the triple-element buff. Very few people will have more than one copy of one of these triple-element eidolons, for a cumulative bonus of 15% per eidolon (30% divided by 2 because it only applies to 3/6 of the elements in Solomon's Ring). But everyone will soon be using double-element eidolons that would provide a bonus of 13.3% (40/(2/6)). Not to mention that if you're using one of those triple-element eidolons yourself, it will likely be level-capped at 40, reducing your entire team's overall stats. Meanwhile, you could've been using a character with attack abilities that get the full 40% buff instead.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

The observed results are predicted in their entirety by the damage formula posted on the JP wiki, and thus are not novel.

THEN MOVE THE FUCK ON SO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO DISCUSS IT CAN WITHOUT YOU SHITTING EVERYWHERE.

Originally Posted by VortexMagus

So in theory you could build a team with Solomon and Takemikazuchi/Behemoth that enabled you to run tricolor Kamihimes with full damage AND in the process get significant bonuses to Solomon's damage. That's interesting, and maybe even relevant if you had Takemikazuchi and a bunch of powerful Kamihimes of her three elements (or if you had Behemoth and a mix of powerful kamis of her elements), but that seems like a really niche area to me, and I think most people would still be better off running Andromeda or Mordred in their teams.

Plus to maximize the tri-element Kamis you'd need a friends list full of people using the same Eidolon, which is pretty rare.

Tri-element is kind of a low ceiling thing. Let's say you have Takemikazuchi/Behemoth and you select another of the same eidolon as support. Great, an instant 60-100% boost to attack to a three-element team! But then the question is, how do you grow further in power from there?
Go over every avenue of power growth in this game and consider how applicable it is to a particular idea. Sooner or later you think about Assault skills. Then you realize that there's a finite X number of Assault skills equipped at once that eventually have to be divided up three ways for a tri-element strategy. You'd only have to divide your weapon grid in half in a dual-element strategy, or not divide at all in a single element strategy.

The value in multi-element buffs is when the gacha hates you and you don't even have the pieces to run single element in the first place. Or if you can't even fully run dual-element yet. When your concern is more about the floor than the ceiling.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Tri-element is kind of a low ceiling thing. Let's say you have Takemikazuchi/Behemoth and you select another of the same eidolon as support. Great, an instant 60-100% boost to attack to a three-element team! But then the question is, how do you grow further in power from there?
Go over every avenue of power growth in this game and consider how applicable it is to a particular idea. Sooner or later you think about Assault skills. Then you realize that there's a finite X number of Assault skills equipped at once that eventually have to be divided up three ways for a tri-element strategy. You'd only have to divide your weapon grid in half in a dual-element strategy, or not divide at all in a single element strategy.

The value in multi-element buffs is when the gacha hates you and you don't even have the pieces to run single element in the first place. Or if you can't even fully run dual-element yet. When your concern is more about the floor than the ceiling.

I originally planned to run the squad I mentioned previously as strictly Wind element, but the main issue I ran into was that Zephyrus is not a good healer compared to Nike (and I didn't have Zephyrus yet anyway). So I had the one Water interloper slotted in, then magically the gacha gave me Shiva on the second jewel gacha pull and it seemed crazy to bench her just to keep the theme going. However, with Behemoth both Wind and Water are covered (and Light if I happened to run across a Sol by some miracle) so I don't have to up-end my entire friend list.

In 6 months maybe we'll all have all of the Eidolons and SSR himes and we construct our team like a salad bar, but for right now losing 10% from my main element to give 30% to the Water members of my team is more than worth it.

The Assault Problem is indeed super real though, eventually I'll probably replace Shiva on the Wind squad and hopefully have enough Water to branch her off. If it was still just one non-Wind Element user slotted in as a Healer though (Lightning and Dark likely have this issue too), I don't feel I'm losing too much letting her just focus on healing and letting her damage fall by the wayside.