Thread: Upcoming SSR Kamihime/Eidolon discussion

Originally Posted by Boydjt

So I started playing after both eilodons were released, so I don't have either, I have a fire main team but a decent all SR+ team in all other elements; I have Echidna for fire/dark so I don't really need Apocalypse for her bonus, but I only have a 1 star behemoth for light bonus. That makes me lean towards getting Phoenix, but the Japanese wiki says that Apocalypse has higher base stats when MLB, which makes me think she'd be the better choice in the long run. I already have more than a full team of SSR eilodons however (1 star Jabberwock, 1 star Behemoth, Echidna, Takemikezuchi, 2 star Crom, MLB Ixion, and MLB Quetzalcoatl). Also should mention I have Sol, so a dual light/thunder bonus would be useful.

Assuming I can only go for one of the two eilodons during the revival, which should I choose?

It really depends on your team, which one could be better.
A little fact. If your eidolon's element matches with your main weapon, it will get 10% stat boost. The difference between the base stats of both eidolon isn't that big, so 10% stat boost will make them equal, if you use a light weapon.
Apocalypse hat blind, but you should also consider:
1. it could miss.
2. boss' most deadly attacks are spells and ultis, which are not affected by blindness. If you count on missing normal attacks to survive, then your power is too low.
3. You can't summon/apply blind at the beginning, unless you have Apo as friend, so it is good for you friends, but less good for yourself.

On the other hand, Phoenix's summon skill (RST up) is useless in most cases. Later if you will face bosses with nasty debuff spells such as medusa and stronger ones, then this skill could save your butt, but blind won't... Medusa is for most people the hardest boss so far. With Phoenix's RST up and Sol's dispell, even ultimate level isn't challenging anymore.

I could unterstand, that someone would say, that apocalyse is superior than phoenix due to summon skills. If I have to choose them as Friend for common battles, I would like to use Apo rather than Phoenix too, but that's not your case.

Both Eidolons are equally strong imo. Apocalyse for general use. Phoenix for some specific, but really hard bosses.
Only considering the passive, if you are able to MLB the Phoenix, it will give 5% more light element attack than your 1*behemoth (40%-35%). 5% element attack up seems a little, but it will give you a signficant dmg boost in late-game, once you have huge attk boost through weapon skills.
A MLB Apo won't give you any passive dmg increase compared to Echidna (40%-40%).
The summon skill blind, well, whats the point, if you can't use it at the begin of the turn. By the way, Dark element has also tons of SR/R which can apply blindness anytime you want.
Of cource It's better to have them both MLB. If I were you, I would focus on Phoenix first and try to get 1 apocalyse at least.

Originally Posted by fucka

It really depends on your team, which one could be better.
A little fact. If your eidolon's element matches with your main weapon, it will get 10% stat boost. The difference between the base stats of both eidolon isn't that big, so 10% stat boost will make them equal, if you use a light weapon.
Apocalypse hat blind, but you should also consider:
1. it could miss.
2. boss' most deadly attacks are spells and ultis, which are not affected by blindness. If you count on missing normal attacks to survive, then your power is too low.
3. You can't summon/apply blind at the beginning, unless you have Apo as friend, so it is good for you friends, but less good for yourself.

On the other hand, Phoenix's summon skill (RST up) is useless in most cases. Later if you will face bosses with nasty debuff spells such as medusa and stronger ones, then this skill could save your butt, but blind won't... Medusa is for most people the hardest boss so far. With Phoenix's RST up and Sol's dispell, even ultimate level isn't challenging anymore.

I could unterstand, that someone would say, that apocalyse is superior than phoenix due to summon skills. If I have to choose them as Friend for common battles, I would like to use Apo rather than Phoenix too, but that's not your case.

Both Eidolons are equally strong imo. Apocalyse for general use. Phoenix for some specific, but really hard bosses.
Only considering the passive, if you are able to MLB the Phoenix, it will give 5% more light element attack than your 1*behemoth (40%-35%). 5% element attack up seems a little, but it will give you a signficant dmg boost in late-game, once you have huge attk boost through weapon skills.
A MLB Apo won't give you any passive dmg increase compared to Echidna (40%-40%).
The summon skill blind, well, whats the point, if you can't use it at the begin of the turn. By the way, Dark element has also tons of SR/R which can apply blindness anytime you want.
Of cource It's better to have them both MLB. If I were you, I would focus on Phoenix first and try to get 1 apocalyse at least.

Hmm, these are all good points; I may have to just bite the bullet and grind out both mlb eilodons and skip the weapons, I have a strong light team of Sol + Raphael + all SR light himes so I think I can probably auto ultimate difficulty for apocalypse and then spend all my half elixers and push out an mlb Phoenix in a couple of days.

Originally Posted by Boydjt

Hmm, these are all good points; I may have to just bite the bullet and grind out both mlb eilodons and skip the weapons, I have a strong light team of Sol + Raphael + all SR light himes so I think I can probably auto ultimate difficulty for apocalypse and then spend all my half elixers and push out an mlb Phoenix in a couple of days.

All defense/attack buffs are better as sub, because you can survive a attack, which would kill you or max your dmgoutput in few turns, so you kill the boss, before he kills you. and RST Up helps against debuffs, which are annoying, not for general use but still useful in some cases.
Blind, dizz, para, all those CC debuffs are not realible, especially as sub summon skills, which need 10 turns to be activited.

I also missed both events.
I personally will farm phoenix and the dark weapon, if I still have time, then 1x apo.
Phoenix will be the best f2p-light eidolon until St. Nikolaos will come out, so still 6 months. Even the gasha one in the base form gives only 40%.

Originally Posted by fucka

It really depends on your team, which one could be better.
A little fact. If your eidolon's element matches with your main weapon, it will get 10% stat boost. The difference between the base stats of both eidolon isn't that big, so 10% stat boost will make them equal, if you use a light weapon.
Apocalypse hat blind, but you should also consider:
1. it could miss.
2. boss' most deadly attacks are spells and ultis, which are not affected by blindness. If you count on missing normal attacks to survive, then your power is too low.
3. You can't summon/apply blind at the beginning, unless you have Apo as friend, so it is good for you friends, but less good for yourself.

On the other hand, Phoenix's summon skill (RST up) is useless in most cases. Later if you will face bosses with nasty debuff spells such as medusa and stronger ones, then this skill could save your butt, but blind won't... Medusa is for most people the hardest boss so far. With Phoenix's RST up and Sol's dispell, even ultimate level isn't challenging anymore.

I could unterstand, that someone would say, that apocalyse is superior than phoenix due to summon skills. If I have to choose them as Friend for common battles, I would like to use Apo rather than Phoenix too, but that's not your case.

Both Eidolons are equally strong imo. Apocalyse for general use. Phoenix for some specific, but really hard bosses.
Only considering the passive, if you are able to MLB the Phoenix, it will give 5% more light element attack than your 1*behemoth (40%-35%). 5% element attack up seems a little, but it will give you a signficant dmg boost in late-game, once you have huge attk boost through weapon skills.
A MLB Apo won't give you any passive dmg increase compared to Echidna (40%-40%).
The summon skill blind, well, whats the point, if you can't use it at the begin of the turn. By the way, Dark element has also tons of SR/R which can apply blindness anytime you want.
Of cource It's better to have them both MLB. If I were you, I would focus on Phoenix first and try to get 1 apocalyse at least.

Just to point out. Phoenix summon skill is entirely useless, there is no situation where it's useful. To put an example: I was using phoenix on Medusa ultimate, it didn't help at all. 4 out 5 party members were petrified. And when I went without Phoenix? 4 out 5 were petrified! So no difference, it just ups your resist a little bit. If you need to rely on it then you are doing it wrong. Even relying on dizzy is way, way better.
The only things that helped there were Amon with her debuff preventing skill and Behemoth with debuff removal. And of course dizzy to make her not move at all.

The usefulness of Blind is preventing a triple attack from decimating a random party member (which if it's a healer or your Soul, could send you into an unrecoverable tailspin). With 3 attacks in a row, it's likely that at least one will miss. In Advent battles (except Ragnarok), you'll have some turns before the boss fight to charge the summon. For most players, surviving Ultimate is the primary goal. Raids are often long enough that the initial charge period won't be that long compared to the overall duration of the fight.

Behemoth, Phoenix, and Apocalypse are not interchangeable because a LV40 (or 55) and a LV100 eidolon don't have the same base stats. This is why Gatcha eidolon are typically useless for your active party.