Thread: Help on improving team for advance content

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

I'd recommend aiming for these two SR kamihime, which you should be able to obtain without whaling (one from an event that's coming soon, the other from Gatcha):


One of them provides an attack debuff, while the other provides a type B ATK/DEF debuff. Sub one or both of them in for your current SRs. That'd let you stick with Andromeda for healing.

I am unsure if we will get the first SR you linked for the nutaku version since that kamihime came in an event that was done as a DMM collaboration with the maker of the Koihime visual novel games. So there may be licensing issues for the event in the nutaku version. But yeah I will try to get the second one then.

Originally Posted by Slashley

+99 Phoenix? Unless you're specifically looking for HP, ouch.Character atk instead of elemental atk Eidolon when he has full level 10-20 skill weapons? Apo or Echidna would both work better, no?

But yes, swapping to Apo and dropping Phoenix and Echidna should provide a minor boost.

There's already two high damage SSRs with basically-SSR-Beelz. As what others have said, all that is missing is B type debuffs and sustain, either in heals and/or A type -Atk down. It would be nice if you could use your Soul for that purpose, but sadly, for advanced content that's pretty much limited to Mordred only. Using Joan/Dart/Andromeda with Mordred's debuff might get you far, but not necessarily through everything. I'm guessing Mordred with Joan's -20% Atk A debuff would be the best for you, as is. That'd net you -30% Atk -25% Def, which is okay.

It looks like the options are quite limited there when it comes to Dark... Osiris coming out in one month would have heals, but good luck with that as it's SSR. And of course, Sol is completely broken and tends to solve all your problems on any team, but again, SSR. Darkness Amaterasu is coming out in ~two months and has Sniper Shot of her own, not to mention that she has Mordred's debuff too, which does solve all of your problems as it allows you to use Andromeda(/Cass for Dispel) for heals. But again, SSR! At least there's Nyarlotep in one~two weeks who'd have Atk -15% A debuff, who is SR.

Yeah the phoenix +99 was done mainly for the hp since my kamihime had a hard time staying around long enough during ragnarok fights to get off their burst. So I thought the extra hp would go well with the SSR defender weapon I have. She also has the fourth highest power of all my eidolons so I don't think its possible to swap her out for more stats.

I really just have problems keeping my himes alive long enough to get to use bursts on the ragnarok fights, so a little extra attack might not help. Also I use Echidna because she is at 1 star which gives 45% element attack rather than the 40% of Apo, so even if I switch Echidna out for a bit of a better raw stat eidolon her extra 5% attack on my 40k attack eclipses any differences in stats between her and any other eidolon. That SR you mention might help alot, I will look out for it thanks. The SSRs however I can only pray to gatcha gods for or wait till they release those miracle tickets.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

Seeing has how you have the scythe, I would assume you have Dullahan? Use her as a main instead of Echidna or remove Pheonix.

While you have a lot of firepower, your team lacks utilities, which will heavily rely on your soul. The problem here is you still need a healer.

What other himes do you have?

Echidna is at 1 star so she gives 45% element attack which multiplies with my character attack from my weapons so I don't think switching her out as my primary eidolon would work since the next closest element attack I have for darkness is Apo at 40%. Phoenix has the fourth highest power of all my eidolons so I don't its possible to swap her out for more stats.

I might try your suggestion to use Dullahan for extra 20% hp but I would lose the 45% multiplication on my raw attack stats and weapon skills. I listed all my dark kamihime above and I am hesitant to use non-dark kamihime in this team since my dark himes have on average 40% more hp and do at least 100% more damage than any off element kamihime when used with my dark weapon grid. I did experiment with Amaterasu, Summer Sol, and Gaia with my dark team but they died too quickly and did shit damage during ragnarok fights.

I attached a screenshot of all the top eidolon I have currently. Thanks again for all this advice.

Originally Posted by darkace51

I did experiment with Amaterasu, Summer Sol, and Gaia with my dark team but they died too quickly and did shit damage during ragnarok fights.

Wait, why are you running Dark team again? Go Fire. You literally need like one more Fire SSR for a near-perfect team. Apparently you're willing to cash so you can pick it up with a Miracle Ticket. Healing and debuffs are the core of any team. It's pretty easy to sub in whatever once you have those covered.

Otherwise, sub in Amaterasu. She'll benefit your team more than any dark SR while you're missing critical debuffs and/or healing. Then run Joan like I said above, or Mordred with ATK down.

Echidna LB1 is likely a small DPS boost. You can pair her with Dullahan friend eidolon for a nice HP boost without losing much damage.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Wait, why are you running Dark team again? Go Fire. You literally need like one more Fire SSR for a near-perfect team. Apparently you're willing to cash so you can pick it up with a Miracle Ticket. Healing and debuffs are the core of any team. It's pretty easy to sub in whatever once you have those covered.

Otherwise, sub in Amaterasu. She'll benefit your team more than any dark SR while you're missing critical debuffs and/or healing. Then run Joan like I said above, or Mordred with ATK down.

Echidna LB1 is likely a small DPS boost. You can pair her with Dullahan friend eidolon for a nice HP boost without losing much damage.

My opinion if u insist on going dark team,
1st scrap off ur Echidna....1.7k stats is really low.... u got other 2k+ to replace it, also Apo is 40% dark that should be ur main....otherwise Dullahan for HP

2nd get Amaterasu into ur team, she has 3 useful skills aoe blind, def up + reg and B frame def + atk down (Apo/Echidna are fire+dark... so Amaterasu damage is not as bad)

Soul, u can stick with Andro for heals/rez but personally i prefer burst down style with Arthur/Sieg (for MVP)

Arthur able to combo with Dullahan weapon(burst effect) u get an extra atk down for survivability while Sieg can easily negate Rage bar...i'm able to stun the boss from full rage in 1 or 2 rounds without any burst

Use Amaterasu. Her damage is irrelevant, her skills are far more important and open up more soul options for you like Joan with black propaganda or Morded with trial. Using Balor with Morded is meaningless so she can easily be replaced. Although slightly conflicted as the next event is water.

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons. Or you can just use a friend with Dullahan with your Echidna and see if that's enough to last, if not double Dullahan is one of your best bets.

Being a 42k+ atk dark team, you have more than enough stats to clear ragnarok difficulty stages regardless of element. Dropping some damage for better survivalbility is a better option, until you get more kamihimes.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons.

This can easily be settled by comparing various combinations of weapons and eidolons using my Toolbox and seeing which combination maximizes HP and ATK. I'm not doing this because it's not my team or element and the answer doesn't interest me, but those with a vested interest (i.e., the OP) should do so. But in general, Defender SSRs have such a large increase in base stats that it nearly offsets the loss in damage from assault.

My suggestion to keep Echidna is based on an analysis of Fafnir's stat scaling using stats listed in the JP wiki (these might be different from Fafnir's stats in the Nutaku version). This may or may not be applicable to the current situation, which is why I've made a calculator available for players to determine what's best in their individual situations. When it comes to optimizing one's team, there's no substitute for running the numbers oneself because every team configuration is different.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Use Amaterasu. Her damage is irrelevant, her skills are far more important and open up more soul options for you like Joan with black propaganda or Morded with trial. Using Balor with Morded is meaningless so she can easily be replaced. Although slightly conflicted as the next event is water.

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons. Or you can just use a friend with Dullahan with your Echidna and see if that's enough to last, if not double Dullahan is one of your best bets.

Being a 42k+ atk dark team, you have more than enough stats to clear ragnarok difficulty stages regardless of element. Dropping some damage for better survivalbility is a better option, until you get more kamihimes.

Adding Amaterasu and using Dullahan gimps my damage by 26% from my current setup according to Sanahtlig's calculator. Granted this is without accounting for extra buffs during battle from Amaterasu but from pure numbers it seems using a non-element with my current 96% assault and 22% hp skill weapon grid severely lowers your damage.

Originally Posted by dreadpin

My opinion if u insist on going dark team,
1st scrap off ur Echidna....1.7k stats is really low.... u got other 2k+ to replace it, also Apo is 40% dark that should be ur main....otherwise Dullahan for HP

2nd get Amaterasu into ur team, she has 3 useful skills aoe blind, def up + reg and B frame def + atk down (Apo/Echidna are fire+dark... so Amaterasu damage is not as bad)

Soul, u can stick with Andro for heals/rez but personally i prefer burst down style with Arthur/Sieg (for MVP)

Arthur able to combo with Dullahan weapon(burst effect) u get an extra atk down for survivability while Sieg can easily negate Rage bar...i'm able to stun the boss from full rage in 1 or 2 rounds without any burst

If I use Apo and Amaterasu while swapping out Echida I loss 16% of my damage according to Sanathlig this includes the 400 extra stat that I get from swapping in a higher stat eidolon. If I use Dullahan with Amaterasu instead that makes it 26% less damage, I think you guys are underestimating the effect of the weapon grid's synergy with the eidolon's element attack up. Just swapping out Echida with Apo with better stats eidolon(~+400) loses me 3% in damages (this includes the offset from the stat bonuses).

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

This can easily be settled by comparing various combinations of weapons and eidolons using my Toolbox and seeing which combination maximizes HP and ATK. I'm not doing this because it's not my team or element and the answer doesn't interest me, but those with a vested interest (i.e., the OP) should do so. But in general, Defender SSRs have such a large increase in base stats that it nearly offsets the loss in damage from assault.

My suggestion to keep Echidna is based on an analysis of Fafnir's stat scaling using stats listed in the JP wiki (these might be different from Fafnir's stats in the Nutaku version). This may or may not be applicable to the current situation, which is why I've made a calculator available for players to determine what's best in their individual situations. When it comes to optimizing one's team, there's no substitute for running the numbers oneself because every team configuration is different.

Yeah thanks, the basic damage toolbox seems to give me some hard number to compare to. I'll try to use the more advance one to min-max what kamihime would be most optimal to bring in my team. But currently it tells me damage wise my eidolon set up is optimal.

Also the reason why I don't use fire is because my grid is shit for that around 30% assault skill and 20% hp skill. I just recently got summer sol and amaterasu so I didn't start building a grid till a month ago.

Sounds like you're missing the point though. You already have more than enough attack power to handle ragnaroks, even with 1 less dark hime but you keep emphasizing on your damage. Your damage is not the problem. The problem is you are having trouble consistently dealing with them, or so you say, with your current set up, most likely because lack of utilities.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

Sounds like you're missing the point though. You already have more than enough attack power to handle ragnaroks, even with 1 less dark hime but you keep emphasizing on your damage. Your damage is not the problem. The problem is you are having trouble consistently dealing with them, or so you say, with your current set up.

The point I was trying to make is that if I do 26% less damage than I would have to survive for 26% longer period of time. I was expressing skepticism over the fact that changing in Amaterasu for one of my dark kamihime would have to improve my surviviability by over 26% or that the 16% hp boost for using Dullahan instead of Echidna would allow me to fight for far greater than the 16% longer period of time needed due to damage lost.

Since there wasn't a calculator for surivivability, I used the damage calculator for a benchmark for how much longer I would need to survive for. Meaning these improvements would force me to sustain anywhere from 16-25% longer fights, at the same time I already have problems surviving fights at my normal lengths. So since there were no hard numbers for this, unlike Sanahtlig's calculations, I am unsure if these solutions are viable.

You doing 26% less damage in place of using Amaterasu and Joan with Black Propaganda would most likely increase your survival 2 or 3 times as much as it is now.

i'm not sure how u evaluate over skills/hp/atk.....maybe i'm a noob myself but my setup is as below and i would really like Amaterasu in my team, her atk/def down is better than sniper shot...with that i can free sniper shot from my Soul and get a better skills(example Dullahan required maiden's prayer to remove the death debuff otherwise u need to get a specific Hime just for that which dropped the ur damage more severely, i'm using Belobog in my dark team for that....so u can imagine...a light hime without weapon skills nor eido effect...)



i tried to swap SSR HP to SR ATK and guess what, the damage is nearly the same from 13k-17k per hit so why not having more hp with additional burst effect? by the way, they are all skills 20

I have Echidna 1 star but she is not even fit into my list, i tried it last time and she disappointed me...
Dullahan is backup when i needed more hp > atk