Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

First of all, guides are for people who can't think for themselves or don't care to try and learn the game on their own. Second, there's no point in me ever checking into any of Sana's guides or tools (Never have, never will). I'm one of the most successful players in Nutaku KH following my own advice.

You claim you're doing thing the best possible way when you haven't even tried to look nor understand the way the other people do it. I'm not perfectly English fluent, so I sometimes have trouble to express what I mean, but I'm pretty sure even the English language can express how retarded of a reasoning this is.
Basically what you did was thinking "I guess I'll go for a Rainbow grid" and later you thought "WOW! I can actually clear content! My way of doing things is certainly the best possible one!» Maybe put this way, you'll understand why no one here is taking your words seriously.

You know what a player that truly wants to be at the top does? He looks at what other people do, and then copy the things that actually work and improves what can be improved.

I usually like aiming for an optimized team in this kind of games and tend to be pretty good at it too. What I did when I started playing was asking everyone I could their opinion on a lot of stuff. Eventually I ended up knowing the game enough to make my own opinion and realize a few things people that advised me hadn't.
For example, there's a bunch of things I end up not agreeing with sana's posts or guides, but reading those surely helped me becoming a better player.
I didn't do anything extraordinary, as doing this is the most basic thing to do if you want to reach the highest possible knowledge about a game.
Sadly, you took another route: the "I'll forge my own wobbly knowledge then convince others it's the best one" one.

Another core thing you do when you want to end up better than others in a team building game is Theory crafting. Theory crafting requires some specific skills that I'm lucky enough to have, but hey, how lucky, even if you don't, Sana shared tools that actually allow you to check a decent amount of stuff without needing those skills! I don't use his tools because I prefer doing the calcs myself, but for people who can't, that's like a Godsend! Too bad your ego is so high that you believe relying on others is a proof of weakness. This truly saddens me.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

There's not a single Advent Ragnarok I couldn't beat, had to use about 5 - 8 elixirs total can't recall the exact number, (counting all Rags we've encountered so far). But, a clear is still a clear.

Not only that, but all my teams can solo raid Ragnaroks, if I ever feel like doing it just for kicks. And Accessory Quests? I already have a huge stockpile of materials to pay for entry, just by doing the 25 AP SP quest for dailies, everyday, until this point. I've also successfully cleared Stage 4 12 times so far.

Instead of trying to troll others on their brain capabilities, maybe you should try using yours to begin with.
Yes, you can clear the game's content. Congratulations. Because you convinced yourself you were the best player in the world, you also believe that the only reason you were able to clear that content was only because you are yourself.

You really need to realize that there is a variety of different players. The 2 most important factors are their playtime, and their objective while playing this game. You can either spend absolutely all your AP and BP before it's full, or you can play only twice a day when you log in your computer. You can either aim at being as strong as possible or just play casually to spare time.

You keep making fun of other players on this forum that either:
- Have significantly fewer playtime than you do
- Have no will to eventually end up with an optimized lineup

Sana for example enters both categories, but if sana had the time and the will he would without a doubt be a way stronger player than you are, because he is able to actively think about how to become better in a scientific way rather than guessing something then assuming it's the ultimate truth based on a biased sample size of 1 player.


Of course, rainbow grids have a lot of merits, especially when you first aim at beating mid-game content or when you don't want to think too much about the way to level up your grid nor spend too much time on it.
However, when you want to stand on top like yourself or myself, Rainbow grid is NOT an option. That is a fact you can REALLY EASILY understand by just running a bunch of calcs. I took me 20 minutes of calculations to realize that, while you have been doing things wrong for almost a year now because you're too stubborn to even admit you could be wrong and just calc it yourself.


We have a similar goal in game, and our playtime is probably about the same, but guess what? I have a finished mono grid, Fire precisely, along an advanced Thunder Grid, and I'm also able to solo Raid Rags or clear Tier 4 Acc quests without using Elixirs. Must be pretty shocking to hear, isn't it, someone got on your level doing things in a way that isn't yours after all.
Even better: I started playing Kamipro in the middle of summer. Basically, that means my total playtime is about half of yours, yet I'm able to clear the content you were so proud to clear yourself.

Now imagine not having those 5 extra months of playtime, or going back 5 months ago. Would you have been able to clear Tier 4 back then? I guess not, your Kami are regularly dying even now after all. That is the limit of a rainbow grid and a result of doing things wrong in general.
You built your whole reasoning on the fact that you know a few people that didn't do things your way and ended up getting worse results, too bad you finally met someone who didn't do things your way but actually had as much time and motivation as you do.

Oh, in case you want to retort by saying that I whaled, be aware that I have 3 less SSR Kami than you do.

Ah, by the way, I use D'artagnan with Snatch 2 as an EX skill on the Wind boss, which means my accessory farming potential is actually higher than yours. If I was in your shoes and was convinced I was the best player ever and learnt that someone who started playing 5 months after I did had better farming potential, I would feel extremely humiliated.




So now, if you could please shut the fuck up and let the people that actually have something to say discuss, everyone would be happier. It's pretty tiring to read you saying "Please notice that I exist and acknowledge that I'm better than you" twice a day.

Ah, and you don't need to answer to this, I already know what you will answer, everyone knows, you're just that predictable, so not saying anything will save your and our time. You're most likely going to answer anyways, but whatever.

And sorry to the people who know me to show such an unsightly side of myself, but this idiot was really getting on my nerves.

Originally Posted by Sfay

You claim you're doing thing the best possible way when you haven't even tried to look nor understand the way the other people do it. I'm not perfectly English fluent, so I sometimes have trouble to express what I mean, but I'm pretty sure even the English language can express how retarded of a reasoning this is.
Basically what you did was thinking "I guess I'll go for a Rainbow grid" and later you thought "WOW! I can actually clear content! My way of doing things is certainly the best possible one!» Maybe put this way, you'll understand why no one here is taking your words seriously.

You know what a player that truly wants to be at the top does? He looks at what other people do, and then copy the things that actually work and improves what can be improved.

I usually like aiming for an optimized team in this kind of games and tend to be pretty good at it too. What I did when I started playing was asking everyone I could their opinion on a lot of stuff. Eventually I ended up knowing the game enough to make my own opinion and realize a few things people that advised me hadn't.
For example, there's a bunch of things I end up not agreeing with sana's posts or guides, but reading those surely helped me becoming a better player.
I didn't do anything extraordinary, as doing this is the most basic thing to do if you want to reach the highest possible knowledge about a game.
Sadly, you took another route: the "I'll forge my own wobbly knowledge then convince others it's the best one" one.

Another core thing you do when you want to end up better than others in a team building game is Theory crafting. Theory crafting requires some specific skills that I'm lucky enough to have, but hey, how lucky, even if you don't, Sana shared tools that actually allow you to check a decent amount of stuff without needing those skills! I don't use his tools because I prefer doing the calcs myself, but for people who can't, that's like a Godsend! Too bad your ego is so high that you believe relying on others is a proof of weakness. This truly saddens me.



Instead of trying to troll others on their brain capabilities, maybe you should try using yours to begin with.
Yes, you can clear the game's content. Congratulations. Because you convinced yourself you were the best player in the world, you also believe that the only reason you were able to clear that content was only because you are yourself.

You really need to realize that there is a variety of different players. The 2 most important factors are their playtime, and their objective while playing this game. You can either spend absolutely all your AP and BP before it's full, or you can play only twice a day when you log in your computer. You can either aim at being as strong as possible or just play casually to spare time.

You keep making fun of other players on this forum that either:
- Have significantly fewer playtime than you do
- Have no will to eventually end up with an optimized lineup

Sana for example enters both categories, but if sana had the time and the will he would without a doubt be a way stronger player than you are, because he is able to actively think about how to become better in a scientific way rather than guessing something then assuming it's the ultimate truth based on a biased sample size of 1 player.


Of course, rainbow grids have a lot of merits, especially when you first aim at beating mid-game content or when you don't want to think too much about the way to level up your grid nor spend too much time on it.
However, when you want to stand on top like yourself or myself, Rainbow grid is NOT an option. That is a fact you can REALLY EASILY understand by just running a bunch of calcs. I took me 20 minutes of calculations to realize that, while you have been doing things wrong for almost a year now because you're too stubborn to even admit you could be wrong and just calc it yourself.


We have a similar goal in game, and our playtime is probably about the same, but guess what? I have a finished mono grid, Fire precisely, along an advanced Thunder Grid, and I'm also able to solo Raid Rags or clear Tier 4 Acc quests without using Elixirs. Must be pretty shocking to hear, isn't it, someone got on your level doing things in a way that isn't yours after all.
Even better: I started playing Kamipro in the middle of summer. Basically, that means my total playtime is about half of yours, yet I'm able to clear the content you were so proud to clear yourself.

Now imagine not having those 5 extra months of playtime, or going back 5 months ago. Would you have been able to clear Tier 4 back then? I guess not, your Kami are regularly dying even now after all. That is the limit of a rainbow grid and a result of doing things wrong in general.
You built your whole reasoning on the fact that you know a few people that didn't do things your way and ended up getting worse results, too bad you finally met someone who didn't do things your way but actually had as much time and motivation as you do.

Oh, in case you want to retort by saying that I whaled, be aware that I have 3 less SSR Kami than you do.

Ah, by the way, I use D'artagnan with Snatch 2 as an EX skill on the Wind boss, which means my accessory farming potential is actually higher than yours. If I was in your shoes and was convinced I was the best player ever and learnt that someone who started playing 5 months after I did had better farming potential, I would feel extremely humiliated.




So now, if you could please shut the fuck up and let the people that actually have something to say discuss, everyone would be happier. It's pretty tiring to read you saying "Please notice that I exist and acknowledge that I'm better than you" twice a day.

Ah, and you don't need to answer to this, I already know what you will answer, everyone knows, you're just that predictable, so not saying anything will save your and our time. You're most likely going to answer anyways, but whatever.

And sorry to the people who know me to show such an unsightly side of myself, but this idiot was really getting on my nerves.

Actually, if you bothered to read my earlier posts, I already mentioned that'd I've tried and compared both build types as a starter on seperate accounts. But, like an average person, you like to jump in with your fists swinging wildy around, without actually knowing much of anything.

And no. Players who want to be the best don't copy others, they find different builds that everyone else sees as bad, but then eventually make those same players copy it or wish they copied it later on down the road. The fact that you would suggest otherwise means you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's funny how you talk about Sana as if he's the only player in existence that 'looks at the game in a scientific way'. Figuring out the calculations isn't difficult whatsoever. Dmm players provided us with all of that information already. All Sana does is collect and repost it.

There's no point in relying on others when you know for a fact that they are wrong. That's just silly.

And you're wrong again. I never made fun of any players for how little or how much they play the game. Or even how much himes they have or don't have. For someone who claims to be very knowledgable, you seem very misinformed. Despite the fact that all claims you've made against me can be easily disproven by my earlier posts. The only people I made fun of are the ones that fire blank and poorly thought out counter-arguments. Like yours just now.

And here we go again with the, "But a mono grid is better for endgame," argument. It's as if you completely skipped over large portions of my previous messages. This is not a discussion about which build is better endgame. It's a discussion about which path builds you into several mono grids more effectively. I have to repeat this over and over. So why wouldn't I insult someone for being so daft?

And no it isn't shocking whatsoever. I've cleared stage 4 12 times so far without relying on elixirs. While playing recklessly and making a few silly mistakes. I too was using D'art against wind, so I don't seen why you're so proud about that. And each stage 4 run averaged about 12 mins for all my elements so far. I even have videos to prove it. Except for water, I didn't get a chance to record that, but I'll be uploading that run next week. You can view my videos if you don't believe me.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIL..._as=subscriber

I'm also willing to bet that all of my elements are similar in strength to your fire team. Which you main. So no, nothing you say makes me feel even close to humiliated.

And if you want me to stop talking, then what is the point in making a response to me? Especially if you know I'm predictable and that I would in fact reply to you. Your logic makes so sense to me. It's like trying to put out a fire with grease while wondering why the fire keeps burning.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

--The only people I made fun of are the ones that fire blank and poorly thought out counter-arguments. Like yours just now.--

Which is amusing, since you haven't made a single argument in a long time. If ever.

I mean "I'm the best because I'm the best" is not really an argument.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I mean "I'm the best because I'm the best" is not really an argument.

You're right. It's a fact.

I get the feeling everyone responding to Baka is a masochist.

Actually he's just a stupid pervert... but enough of the nonsense.
This thread quickly turned into a battlefield, instead of a discussion.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

Actually he's just a stupid pervert... but enough of the nonsense.

Why does everyone keep calling me a stupid pervert? D:<

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

Why does everyone keep calling me a stupid pervert? D:<

cause you're a stupid pervert!

Well you're just mean

Originally Posted by ohjel

For debuffs, just by being the advantage element, you have the equivalent of -25% att down and -30% def down. So even with just sniper shot on top of that you are already at about the same point as someone at the cap in their mono team. So you do get a lot more flexibility with the rainbow team.

Compared to a neutral-element team with -70% ATK (admittedly somewhat of a temporary exploit), an element-advantaged team with -20% ATK would be taking double damage.

BakaHentai has excellent kamihime in just about every team. Given multiple excellent SSRs, basic knowledge of mechanics, and unlimited free time, I suspect players could achieve success with just about any half-decent build strategy. I've also seen a savvy player (who didn't spend on SSR kamihime tickets) use the same build strategy as BakaHentai and fail to clear content, which is one reason I'm skeptical. You can't go wrong by building around a strong mono-element team, but you can certainly dig a hole for yourself by relying on elemental advantage to clear content, investing in all elements equally, and then belatedly realizing that some of your teams aren't up to snuff. And from the perspective of someone who writes guides for the widest audience possible, it's easier to provide optimal build templates to aim for than to individually explain to each new player how to work with the hodgepodge of kamihime they've been given in each element for each encounter.