Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

I've been wondering for a while now about people arguing here & there about rainbow & monogrids, but never seen an example presenting actual values on it. So when I was asked someone which to choose, I thought I might as well be the one to overview an example.
I used my current dark monogrid for it & built a rainbow grid focusing on maximizing atk value while keeping dark SSRs.
I'm going to calculate with SL10 monogrids compared to SL20 rainbow grids, as making a monogrid for each element is much more costly than keeping one rainbow grid that might alternate only a little bit for each element.
It should be noted that this is just a calculation of my own grid. There might be rainbow grids with better values or monogridders might prefer less defender weapon on their grid.

Also it should be mentioned that mono & rainbow grid are just 2 different paths with the same destination: full on-element SSR grid. As time passes monogrid will swap SR weapons to SSR, and rainbow grid will swap off-element SSRs to on-element. You shouldn't forget about that part.

I attached the picture showing my team with mono(left side) and rainbow(right side) grid
I've been playing for 6 months, starting from Phoenix/Apocalypse rematch. This grid was built during that time.

Introduction done. Onto the main part: (and yes, it's going to be long)


Applied DMG-calculation:
Displayed attack value
　　× (1+ assault value + character eidolon effect + attack buff + assist)
　　× (1+ elemental advantage + elemental eidolon effect + elemental buff)
　　× (1+ ally attack debuff)
　　× (1+ union buff)
　　× (1+ other buff correction)
　　÷ {enemy defense × (1 + enemy defense debuff)}

This calculation will only consider unbuffed version of the DMG & disregard the defense of the enemy:
Displayed attack value
　　× (1+ assault value + character eidolon effect)
　　× (1+ elemental advantage + elemental eidolon effect)

HP in battle:
Displayed HP × (1 + defender value + eidolon effect)

Assumptions:
Monogrid is SL10
Rainbow grid is SL20
Pride skill counted as assault
+1k correction to displayed atk value as Apocalypse lance is 0* instead of MLB
+90 correction to displayed HP value for the reason above
Using 40/20 character eidolon + 40% elemental eidolon
Elemental advantage on both cases

Grid:
No dual skill weapons, hope it won't cause misunderstanding that I use "SSR assault" instead of "large assault" and so on.
2 assault SSR + 1 pride SSR -> calculating with 3 assault SSR
2 defender SSR
5 assault SR(monogrid) / 5 off-element SSR(rainbow grid)

Monogrid(left side):
Attack
37676+1000=38676 base attack on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
3x SSR assault weapon(3x11% bonus)
5x SR assault weapon(5x8% bonus)
38676x(1+3x0.11+5x0.08+0.4)x(1+0.45+0.4)=152402

HP
6241+90=6331 base HP on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
2 SSR defender weapon(2x11% bonus)
6331x(1+2x0.11+0.2)=8990

Rainbow grid(right side):
Attack
42125+1000=43125 base attack on Mordred (Apo lance correction)
3x SSR assault weapon(3x16% bonus)
43125x(1+3x0.16+0.4)x(1+0.45+0.4)=149988

HP
6362+90=6452 base hp on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
2x SSR defender weapon(2x16% bonus)
6452x(1+2x0,16+0,2)=9807

So what happens if we say that you use only one monogrid, which you can SL20, but in exchange lose elemental advantage most of the time?
It shouldn't be forgotten that elemental advantage has other benefits: higher debuff stickrate & lower incoming damage.

Advanced(SL20) monogrid:
Attack
37676+1000=38676 base attack on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
3x SSR assault weapon(3x16% bonus)
5x SR assault weapon(5x13% bonus)
2x 40% elemental eidolon, instead of 1 character+1 elemental

No elemental advantage:
38676x(1+3x0.16+5x0.13)x(1+2x0,4)=148283
Elemental advantage:
38676x(1+3x0.16+5x0.13)x(1+0.45+2x0.4)=185354

HP
6241+90=6331 base HP on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
2 SSR defender wep(2x16% bonus)
No eidolon bonus
6331x(1+2x0.16)=8356

Finally, it might be interesting to see what happens if you stick with 40/20 eidolon + elemental eidolon combo with the advanced monogrid:
Attack
37676+1000=38676 base attack on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
3x SSR assault weapon(3x16% bonus)
5x SR assault weapon(5x13% bonus)
40% character + 40% elemental bonus from eidolons

No elemental advantage:
38676x(1+3x0.16+5x0.13+0.4)x(1+0,4)=136990
Elemental advantage:
38676x(1+3x0.16+5x0.13+0.4)x(1+0.45+0.4)=181023

Footnote: the difference is way lower between 2x elemental & 1 character + 1 elemental eidolon if you have elemental advantage. Thought it might be worth mentioning.

HP
6241+90=6331 base HP on Mordred(Apo lance correction)
2 SSR defender wep(2x16% bonus)
20% eido bonus
6331x(1+2x0.16+0.2)=9623


Keep in mind that this calculation only considers the HP & DMG without actually considering team setup. This means that buffs & debuffs coming with each setup is disregarded, so you might want to have a look at your own setup before making your pick.

A final footnote: depending on how many on-element SSR assault you have in a rainbow grid, the applied DMG might change quite alot. Having 1-2 less or more of them will make quite a difference. Feel free to play with the numbers if you're curious what happens if you change this or that.
Here is the tool to do that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=848984711
All credits for the tool goes to Sanahtlig.

That was a lot of effort, considering that The Sanahtlig's toolbox has a weapon calc. In one minute, I can slap a skill level 130 weapon with 0 atk against a 4000 atk skill level 0 weapon and instantly know that it's a whopping 37% damage loss. For my stats.

I know there are calculators out there for such purpose, but people might not know about such thing existing, might not bother the effort to learn how to use & put in their actual values, or just feel lost after having a look at the calculator.
The point of this post was to analyse an actual example and present it, but you're right on that I should probably link it at the end as I already mentioned that they can play around with the numbers.

A few points:

1. Use the average of character-level attack values (the 5 in your frontline), not the team ATK value (which is not used by the game in damage calculations).
2. Use grids of max level and skill level SRs and SSRs if you want to make this comparison relevant to endgame players. At least one of your SSRs isn't max level. You can calculate the change in attack value by simple addition/subtraction.
3. Such calculations don't factor in one of the most important game mechanics: access to debuffs. Your best mono-element team will presumably have excellent debuff access; it's likely that at least one of your other elements will be debuff-deficient. You can use my Temporary Effects Calculator to estimate the effect of differential access to ATK and DEF down, as well as elemental advantage. The Advanced Damage Calculator can also factor in debuff miss rate (if you know this rate) and buff duration.

1. - I was considering that as well, but average is highly dependant on what himes you got(how high their base stats are), while soul's attack as far as I know is only dependant on the grid & bonuses.
2.

• My only unmaxed weapon on the grid is the 0* Apocalypse lance, which I corrected in my calculations by adding 1000 atk value & 90 HP which is roughly the difference between 0* & MLB.

• I used SL10 monogrid first based on the assumption that that's roughly the manageable cost-wise for every element compared to rainbow SL20. (Also factors like SL10+ SR will result in sunk resources since SL10 SR wep is worth 350 skill level experience)

• I also made a max SLed calculation for monogrid which took into consideration that cost-wise that would end you up with a single monogrid for a longer time. I also made the calculation for both having elemental advantage or neutral in this case.

3. - I pointed out in the end of the post that this calculation disregards that factor & that it should also be taken into consideration, but the whole point of this was to make an actual example instead of going into generalization of assuming if you had this or that hime & debuffs.

But all of these were explained in the analyzation.

Sorry for the too much edit if you were reading it, something got screwed up.

So what would you conclude from this analysis? How should other players use these results to guide their own gear decisions?

Gotta love when people discuss for days over a subject that's obvious or has already been stated previously

Originally Posted by Neverbloom

Gotta love when people discuss for days over a subject that's obvious or has already been stated previously

Gotta love it when some people just want attention.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

I like how this is always a guaranteed response from any player I discuss this with, as if for some reason they think a mono users rainbow grid would be just as strong as a player who solely puts all of their efforts in their SSR SL.

That's because they are. More on that in a bit.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

And 3 years? What are you even saying? It hasn't even been a year yet and most of my grids have an average of 4 mono SSR weapons (from events).

Of course you have 4 per element. Let's see now, counting double skills and Pride weapons as Assault:
Fire: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Water: 2 Assault, 1 Defender
Wind: 2 Assault, 2 Defender
Thunder: 2 Assault, 3 Defender
Darkness: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Light: 2 Assault

(5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 2)/6 = 4 per element. Out of which half is Defender weapons. Three years is what it'll take before you'll be at a good spot for every Element as a rainbowgrid user.

So you have about four SSRs per Element. And? I've been playing since Crom's Crotch, so I've missed out on several SSR weapons. Yet, my Water monogrid is at 94%. Even if you had focused solely on SSRs and gotten ALL your SSRs to slvl20, my Water still is... 94-16-16-23... 39% ahead of your Water. Ignoring Light, my worst element Wind is at 73%, which is still 9% above your current maximum! When counting Pride as 16% that is, which isn't technically correct, but saying that it's 10% doesn't do the amazing Pride weapons justice. Anyway, at this point, your rainbow team MIGHT actually be better than my Wind, just because I've largely ignored investing in mine.

I've been playing the game for seven months, which is obviously months less than you have. And I seem to be losing in one Element, absolutely CRUSHING you in one, and doing slightly better than you in three? If we include Light, we can say losing in two Elements, but Light has had a whopping two events so far. Has anyone invested in Light? Maybe some who have pulled several Light SSRs, I guess. Anyway.

Where is your advantage again...?

Originally Posted by Slashley

That's because they are. More on that in a bit.Of course you have 4 per element. Let's see now, counting double skills and Pride weapons as Assault:
Fire: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Water: 2 Assault, 1 Defender
Wind: 2 Assault, 2 Defender
Thunder: 2 Assault, 3 Defender
Darkness: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Light: 2 Assault

(5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 2)/6 = 4 per element. Out of which half is Defender weapons. Three years is what it'll take before you'll be at a good spot for every Element as a rainbowgrid user.

So you have about four SSRs per Element. And? I've been playing since Crom's Crotch, so I've missed out on several SSR weapons. Yet, my Water monogrid is at 94%. Even if you had focused solely on SSRs and gotten ALL your SSRs to slvl20, my Water still is... 94-16-16-23... 39% ahead of your Water. Ignoring Light, my worst element Wind is at 73%, which is still 9% above your current maximum! When counting Pride as 16% that is, which isn't technically correct, but saying that it's 10% doesn't do the amazing Pride weapons justice. Anyway, at this point, your rainbow team MIGHT actually be better than my Wind, just because I've largely ignored investing in mine.

I've been playing the game for seven months, which is obviously months less than you have. And I seem to be losing in one Element, absolutely CRUSHING you in one, and doing slightly better than you in three? If we include Light, we can say losing in two Elements, but Light has had a whopping two events so far. Has anyone invested in Light? Maybe some who have pulled several Light SSRs, I guess. Anyway.

Where is your advantage again...?

Actually, I started my current account during the Jorm event. So at most it's about a month older than yours. And you haven't missed out on several weapons. At most, you've missed out on Jorm, Sandalphon, Crom, maybe Quetz, and either Phoenix OR Apoc. If you slacked off. And 3 of those were defenders, so like other mono grid users, you probably would have skipped them anyway. Or used them as fodder.

If you missed anything else besides those, it was a choice to do so.

I also like how you just throw out assault bonuses without mentioning what your attack stats even are. 160% assault on top of garbage attack is still garbage.

All of my teams have about 50k atk and deal around 30k per auto, per unit, with -40% defense. They also average around 10k HP with 40/20 + 40% element atk. Which is more than enough to AAB most (if not all) of all content we have had, and manually farm events at a quick pace.

And this is my advantage.