Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

Originally Posted by Slashley

What sort of fantasy world do you live in? Debuffs are the most important thing, and many elements don't have any real access to them - particularly not without SSR Himes.Would you mind explaining all your teams so that I could get a grasp on what on Earth are talking about?

It's like we're not even playing the same game.Except that, you know, Gacha SSRs are relatively bad. Sure, they're an upgrade - but not much. Not before Belial and friends, that is.People enjoy different things. And the things Sanahtlig does benefit you too. At least it would, should you listen.

You mention a lack of debuffs as if Gawain, D'art, Mord, and Joan aren't options as souls. Along with Ambush, SniperShot, and Trial By Jury for EX abilities. Would it be better to have debuffs covered on himes? Of course, but that's not a wise expectation when you main all element. Not until later at least. It doesn't take much brain power to get around -30/-30%+ in debuffs. Which is all you really need. Anything beyond that is just dandy. Most teams can get around -30/30% fairly easily. With wise soul + EX combos and a decent collection of himes. Long time players should have no trouble with this whatsoever.

And as for my teams:
Dark: Amon U, Satan, Hades, Beelze.
Light: Sol, Michael, Diana, Metatron.
Thunder: Brahma, Thor, Nemesis, Hermod.
Water: Poseidon, Ryu-Oh, Oceanus, Kikiur-Hime.
Wind: Cronus, Maeve, Krampus, Cybele.
Fire: Yamaraja, Motu, Brynhildr, Amon (fire).

You'd probably accuse me of whaling, but more than half of those SSRs came from rerolling and jewel pulls. The others came from SSR hime guarantee tickets, which are the only things I spend money on. And M tickets of course.

What are you even saying? Do you even know what a whale is? Since when was gacha SSRs limited to Eidolons only? My god you need to start putting more thought into your responses. This is just getting sad.

First of all, guides are for people who can't think for themselves or don't care to try and learn the game on their own. Second, there's no point in me ever checking into any of Sana's guides or tools (Never have, never will). I'm one of the most successful players in Nutaku KH following my own advice. There's not a single Advent Ragnarok I couldn't beat--had to use about 5 - 8 elixirs total, I can't recall the exact number--but a clear is still a clear. This is counting all Advent Rags we've seen so far.

Not only that, but all my teams can solo raid Ragnaroks, if I ever feel like doing it just for kicks. And Accessory Quests? I already have a huge stockpile of materials to pay for entry, just by doing the 25 AP SP quest for dailies, everyday, until this point. I've also successfully cleared Stage 4 12 times so far. And lastly, I currently lead one of the top-tier unions in Nutaku KH. Not only that, but we are the only Union that had to expand to a second union due to how many players wanted to join.

A total of 60 members, with a leader who is arguably the most disliked player in this game? How does that happen? I'll tell you how. Because I know exactly what I'm doing. I don't need advice from others. The path I forge is the best path to success. Listening to others advice would only hinder my progress.

Not saying everyone else is stupid, they are just (mostly) wrong. And that's ok. That's how normal people are.

I think the question here is time. No one will argue that with 6+months and 200+ dollars like BakaHentai has invested that you can't get a good rainbow grid. The thing is that with one $50 (in theory) miracle ticket and following sanahtlig's guides, your mono element team can be clearing ults within a month and rags in 2 months. And with considerably less grinding since you only need 1 team leveled. And if your mono team can handle all the non resist element content at max difficulty (5/6 of the events say), that may be enough for many people.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

By "trivial" I mean not challenging, like something I could auto-battle. That was in response to you claiming that deficiencies in my build might be costing me effort/time.


I don't know what "AAB" is, but preventing AP from capping means you're playing this game periodically throughout the entire day. That's already beyond a typical user.


As Slashley pointed out, debuffs are really important. The right combination will reduce incoming damage by 70% (10k hit to 3k) and double outgoing damage (15k to 30k). A soul can only bring 2 of the 5 debuffs you need to reach the caps. Most teams will need at least 3 of those + Black Propaganda for challenging content.


It is with heavy interface lag.


Recovering from the automatic disconnects and then navigating the interface adds significant time to each attempt. It takes much longer than it needs to, and it's tedious. Not something I want to do multiple times a day.


So yes, you're playing the game at a minimum of 2hr intervals every day. Pretty much all day every day. I did that too: for the first month or so.

There's nothing wrong with that, but we're comparing builds between a player who plays constantly (you), and one that doesn't (me). Then you/others claim that your method is equal to or superior to mine, which is where our disagreement lies. I'm achieving comparable results to you with a fraction of the time investment.

Now, you could claim that your method is superior for those with no money and excess time, and that's possible. But I'm not convinced yet. A player could instead spend that time rerolling for triple same-element SSRs or some such. Likewise, I'm not convinced that spreading Miracle ticket picks over multiple elements is the best use of funds.

How do you spend so much time thinking about the game and not know what AAB is? AB = Auto Battle, AAB = Auto Ability Battle. And successful AABing costs you no time at all, besides clicking twice and walking away.

That's actually how a lot of active players play the game, they try their best to prevent AP and BP from capping out. Just because they try to do so doesn't mean they always can. Not sure why I even have to point that out.

The lag is easy to work around. All you do is click Inventory > Eidolons/Weapons. After mass selling both. It takes far less time to do. I figured you of all people would have figured that about by now, but it seems you tunnel in on just the numbers and fail to see much of anything else.

You're assuming how much I play and you're wrong. Union raids are different, but as for other events I just check the game as often as I can, hit AAB and return to what I was doing before.

And no. Your build path is best for players who hardly play the game. My build path is best for those who log in daily and complete SSR collecting from each event. Which isn't hard or time consuming to do, with AAB, regen, and some seeds/elixirs.

Like I said earlier. There's no point in putting all of your eggs into one basket. You just make the game more of a chore for yourself, while assuming it makes things more simplistic and effecient.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

You mention a lack of debuffs as if Gawain, D'art, Mord, and Joan aren't options as souls. Along with Ambush, SniperShot, and Trial By Jury for EX abilities.--

Let's go through the tools that you should you should aim for as the minimum:
A Def debuff
A Atk debuff
B debuff
Black Propaganda
Healing
Cleanse/debuff prevention (depending on content)
Dispel (depending on content)

In addition, extremely good to have:
Debuff chance
C Def debuff
C Atk debuff
Combo-

A Soul can bring at most 3 of these 5-7 essential tools, and the rest come from your Hime. In an ideal scenario, your Hime will handle ALL of them, though that's really tough to pull off. In any event, team building is all about providing as many of these tools as possible. Your success is literally tied exactly to how many of these tools you can cover. As such, building one team which is able to do that will vastly overpower many half-assed teams. Your idea of spreading Miracle Ticket love around is... an interesting one, but is unlikely to bring success.

And shit dude, 11 SSR Himes? You have more SSRs than I have, and that's after spending 1k bucks trying to get Karin, plus the guaranteed SSRs. With that luck, no wonder your perception of your ability and the game in general is entirely screwed.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

And lastly, I currently lead one of the top-tier union in Nutaku KH. Not only that, but we are the only Union that had to expand to a second union due to how many players wanted to join.

A total of 60 members, with a leader who is arguably the most disliked player in this game? How does that happen? I'll tell you how. Because I know exactly what I'm doing. I don't need advice from others. The path I forge is the best path to success. Listening to others advice would only hinder my progress.

So you are correct, BECAUSE you are correct. Well, it's good to know which Union won't last then.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

First of all, guides are for people who can't think for themselves or don't care to try and learn the game on my own. Second, there's no point in me ever checking into any of Sana's guides or tools (Never have, never will). I'm one of the most successful players in Nutaku KH following my own advice.

Out of curiosity, how did you figure out the difference between Elemental and Character attack, if you never, ever paid any attention to what anyone else is doing?

For debuffs, just by being the advantage element, you have the equivalent of -25% att down and -30% def down. So even with just sniper shot on top of that you are already at about the same point as someone at the cap in their mono team. So you do get a lot more flexibility with the rainbow team.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

I'm one of the most successful players in Nutaku KH following my own advice.
(...)
And lastly, I currently lead one of the top-tier unions in Nutaku KH. Not only that, but we are the only Union that had to expand to a second union due to how many players wanted to join.
(...)
Because I know exactly what I'm doing. I don't need advice from others. The path I forge is the best path to success. Listening to others advice would only hinder my progress.

Not saying everyone else is stupid, they are just (mostly) wrong. And that's ok. That's how normal people are.

You do realise just how arrogant this seems ?

And since when do we have rankings ?

How are people supposed to understand frames / Charcter vs elemental attack by themselves ?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Let's go through the tools that you should you should aim for as the minimum:
A Def debuff
A Atk debuff
B debuff
Black Propaganda
Healing
Cleanse/debuff prevention (depending on content)
Dispel (depending on content)

In addition, extremely good to have:
Debuff chance
C Def debuff
C Atk debuff
Combo-

A Soul can bring at most 3 of these 5-7 essential tools, and the rest come from your Hime. In an ideal scenario, your Hime will handle ALL of them, though that's really tough to pull off. In any event, team building is all about providing as many of these tools as possible. Your success is literally tied exactly to how many of these tools you can cover. As such, building one team which is able to do that will vastly overpower many half-assed teams. Your idea of spreading Miracle Ticket love around is... an interesting one, but is unlikely to bring success.

And shit dude, 11 SSR Himes? You have more SSRs than I have, and that's after spending 1k bucks trying to get Karin, plus the guaranteed SSRs. With that luck, no wonder your perception of your ability and the game in general is entirely screwed.So you are correct, BECAUSE you are correct. Well, it's good to know which Union won't last then.Out of curiosity, how did you figure out the difference between Elemental and Character attack, if you never, ever paid any attention to what anyone else is doing?

Yeah, I already pointed that out with my earlier comment about certain souls and EX abilities, but thanks for explaining my thought process for me.

Well, when you're different from others, the game just favors you more. Not something I can control.

No, no. Thinking you're always correct is just being ignorant and a narcissist. Sure I'm a narcissist, but I'm a wise one. I'm correct because I have continually outpreformed countless others who have told me that my build choice is stupid and would only hinder my progress. Yet, I have not seen any proof to those statements and everyone has failed to prove to me why rainbow is a bad choice. The only point they can argue with, is that a mono grid does more damage, which I'm already aware of.

I have to continually repeat myself that I don't play rainbow because I think it does more damage--and that the reason I play it is because it gets you reliably farming events faster and works as a far less stressful and thrifty segway into 6 full mono grids. When you actually need them.
And despite constantly repeating this, my words still fail to reach them and their argument always falls back on, "But mono grids do more damage."

I can't help but shake my head and sigh.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

How are people supposed to understand frames / Charcter vs elemental attack by themselves ?

The same way DMM players figured it out, along with most of everything else. By build testing and comparing results. If you can think outside the box and stop relying on others, stuff like this isn't hard to do with a knowledge of simple math.

The best part is, you don't even need to find an exact number or multiplier to know something provides a better bonus over another. In this case, eidolons.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

The same way DMM players figured it out, along with most of everything else. By build testing and comparing results. If you can think outside the box and stop relying on others, stuff like this isn't hard to do with a knowledge of simple math.

The best part is, you don't even need to find an exact number or multiplier to know something provides a better bonus over another. In this case, eidolons.

The funny thing is, a rainbow grid can hardly even tell the difference between Elemental and Character attack at this point of the game.

Originally Posted by Slashley

The funny thing is, a rainbow grid can hardly even tell the difference between Elemental and Character attack at this point of the game.

You're wrong and you'd know this if you actually did any testing at all. Even with rainbow, there's quite a big difference between using x2 character, x2 element, and a character/element mix. x2 character provides the least amount of extra damage, x2 element is roughly the same or slightly better--depending on the eidolon and grid assault bonus, and character/element mix is by far the best increase in damage.