Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

This discussion gained momentum pretty quickly.

Focusing resources (especially weapon skill enhancement) on a single element for mid and late game has the following advantages:

1. You only need to farm a fraction of the content to achieve full potential
2. You can build up a versatile team with good access to debuffs, a main bottleneck in KamiPro
3. You can use variations of the same team for all content, so it's a lower learning curve
4. You can easily build the team into a juggernaut with 1-3 Miracle tickets

That's why I recommend it in my guide for beginners. This discussion about max damage potential is sort of besides the point. What I'd like to see is a comparison of the progression tiers between the mono-team method and the rainbow SSR method. Given finite skill enhancement resources, how do these teams compare at various levels of investment? I have a weapon enhancement tool that should make this comparison straightforward.

Also, with the introduction of Accessory Quests, and eventually Ragnarok Disasters, is it even practical to farm every element simultaneously? Even for those who play around the clock, I'm not sure AP regenerates fast enough to farm Accessory Quests, farm Daily Quests for materials for Accessory Quests, and get max rewards in every event. And even if it is possible, seems like the game becomes a full-time job at that point.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

This discussion gained momentum pretty quickly.

Focusing resources (especially weapon skill enhancement) on a single element for mid and late game has the following advantages:

1. You only need to farm a fraction of the content to achieve full potential
2. You can build up a versatile team with good access to debuffs, a main bottleneck in KamiPro
3. You can use variations of the same team for all content, so it's a lower learning curve
4. You can easily build the team into a juggernaut with 1-3 Miracle tickets

That's why I recommend it in my guide for beginners. This discussion about max damage potential is sort of besides the point. What I'd like to see is a comparison of the progression tiers between the mono-team method and the rainbow SSR method. Given finite skill enhancement resources, how do these teams compare at various levels of investment? I have a weapon enhancement tool that should make this comparison straightforward.

Also, with the introduction of Accessory Quests, and eventually Ragnarok Disasters, is it even practical to farm every element simultaneously? Even for those who play around the clock, I'm not sure AP regenerates fast enough to farm Accessory Quests, farm Daily Quests for materials for Accessory Quests, and get max rewards in every event. And even if it is possible, seems like the game becomes a full-time job at that point.

You'll never reach full potential with just one element. Sure, you can clear things, but there will be content that makes you wish you spent a little more time and effort on a certain team. And if your team and grid is maxed or nearly maxed out, the only way to increase your potential is through element advantage, which you will only have against one other element.

Also, a good team with a good grid + element advantage, will always outpreform a 'perfect team' + a good grid, while fighting off-element.

There's no need to put all of your eggs in one basket, especially with the consideration of M tickets. Focusing on one team just makes the game harder for yourself, because most off-element content is a pain for you to deal with, which is the only reason why farming for all elements at the same time sounds like a full-time job and utterly pointless. If all of your teams have been taken care of, even stuff like Stage 4 accessory quests isn't difficult to do on each of them. I know some people who take about 20+ mintues on Stage 4 due to having to use teams with weaker grids. Meanwhile, stage 4 took my thunder and water teams about 8 - 9 minutes to clear--while watching animations. Neither of which are my strongest teams. In fact, water is one of my weakest elements.

Let's not forget that having several good teams would also speed up and lessen the time it takes to strengthen your other elements.

As for the materials--with the new gem quests--it's now a waste to spend your AP on standard/expert disaster raids. All you need is an alt for raids to blow BP on. Most of the disaster assaults are already being cycled out and you don't even need the help of SR fodder anymore. With a decent rank, and letting your AP nearly cap out before each gem quest--plus 2 HEs--can net you close to 80k gems. And provided you sell back Ns and R eidolons, 80k is usually enough to do 100 x10 gem pulls. You can easily manage to do this every day, as long as it fits your schedule. By doing 100 x10 gems pulls everyday, you get so much R weapons that it allows you to greatly accelerate your SL enhancment progress.

By stacking several R weapons on top of each other to SL 2, you can easily get an SSR from SL 11 to SL 20. Before, this would have been unwise, but with 100 gem pulls everyday, there's just no point in trying to be frugal with R weapon fodder. Counting all the weapons I own and use for my grids, there's about 680 SLs--of which I've currently enhanced a total of around 553. So 553/680 SLs completed thus far. If I continue my pace of 100 gem pulls a day, I estimate I will have completely maxed out my total SLs within a month's time (counting future event weapons within that time).

It sounds like a lot of work, and something that would sink tons of HEs, but it really isn't. Let's also not forget that before long, we'll be getting HEs from gem pulls, so it's not going to be a limited resource.

And once again this discussion was never about max damage potential. It's quite obvious that a mono SSR assault grid is one of the best ways to do that. But that's endgame, and we haven't reached that point. This discussion is about utility. It's about which grid type builds into endgame better, which grid type handles all events the best. A comparison between which grid type is more versatile and less painful.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

Also, a good team with a good grid + element advantage, will always outpreform a 'perfect team' + a good grid, while fighting off-element.

Choosing to invest in all elements doesn't mean you'll have a "good" team for every element. If I have a handpicked Water team, and no other SSRs, my weakest element's team may be quite terrible. If I spread out my Miracle ticket picks, I may end up with 2-3 good teams and 3-4 mediocre ones. My Water team isn't even all that good right now--I only have 1 kamihime I'd deem optimal. But it'll improve significantly with each Miracle ticket. Cthulhu alone will dramatically increase my damage (+36%). That's comparable to what a +100% elemental attack eidolon would provide.

Focusing on one team just makes the game harder for yourself, because most off-element content is a pain for you to deal with, which is the only reason why farming for all elements at the same time sounds like a full-time job and utterly pointless.

I spend most of my time doing trivial content (e.g., Advent Ultimates, Daily quests) or content that is made trivial by the participation of other players (e.g., Raid and Union events). Time required is less determined by the strength of one's team, and more by one's progress quota. I don't get max rewards in most Raid events not because they're too difficult, but because I can't be bothered to start or join 200 battles. Same with Advents. Frankly I can't imagine trying to skill level 6 teams at once. Even skill leveling a single SSR is a chore. It's not hard--I long ago worked out the math. It's just tedious. I'd automate it if I could.

As for the materials--with the new gem quests--it's now a waste to spend your AP on standard/expert disaster raids.

I farmed Disasters for skill leveling fodder maybe for the first month. After that, I got SRs from Raid events faster than I'm willing to use them. I gave up on spawning with alts because, again, that wastes too much time.

It sounds like a lot of work, and something that would sink tons of HEs, but it really isn't.

It sounds like you play this game a lot more than I do. I'd rather write about and discuss the game than play it, honestly.

I'm less concerned with achieving an optimal result and more with being able to clear all content with minimal investment. Could I do better if I played this game as a full-time job? Probably. Do I want to? No. And I expect that a lot of my readers are in the same camp.

Guild Orders are the one content type I can think of where having multiple strong elemental teams would be useful. But as long as I'm farming for only one team, decreased farming efficiency shouldn't slow progression.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Choosing to invest in all elements doesn't mean you'll have a "good" team for every element. If I have a handpicked Water team, and no other SSRs, my weakest element's team may be quite terrible. If I spread out my Miracle ticket picks, I may end up with 2-3 good teams and 3-4 mediocre ones. My Water team isn't even all that good right now--I only have 1 kamihime I'd deem optimal. But it'll improve significantly with each Miracle ticket. Cthulhu alone will dramatically increase my damage (+36%). That's comparable to what a +100% elemental attack eidolon would provide.


I spend most of my time doing trivial content (e.g., Advent Ultimates, Daily quests) or content that is made trivial by the participation of other players (e.g., Raid and Union events). Time required is less determined by the strength of one's team, and more by one's progress quota. I don't get max rewards in most Raid events not because they're too difficult, but because I can't be bothered to start or join 200 battles. Same with Advents. Frankly I can't imagine trying to skill level 6 teams at once. Even skill leveling a single SSR is a chore. It's not hard--I long ago worked out the math. It's just tedious. I'd automate it if I could.


I farmed Disasters for skill leveling fodder maybe for the first month. After that, I got SRs from Raid events faster than I'm willing to use them. I gave up on spawning with alts because, again, that wastes too much time.


It sounds like you play this game a lot more than I do. I'd rather write about and discuss the game than play it, honestly.

I'm less concerned with achieving an optimal result and more with being able to clear all content with minimal investment. Could I do better if I played this game as a full-time job? Probably. Do I want to? No. And I expect that a lot of my readers are in the same camp.

Guild Orders are the one content type I can think of where having multiple strong elemental teams would be useful. But as long as I'm farming for only one team, decreased farming efficiency shouldn't slow progression.

First of all, choosing to invest in all elements does in fact guarantee you will have good teams in all elements. The grid does most of the work, himes just make things a little better. You don't need a full team of SSR himes in order to have a strong, solid team. As long as you do your dailies and any other content that gives jewels, the gacha will provide you with more than enough himes to choose from. Doesn't matter if you're f2p or a whale.

I don't see how you can call those events 'trival' when they provide weapons and items to increase your strength for future content. The only way any of this content would be trival, is if you're a fat whale with tons of MLB gacha SSRs. And if that's the case, then yeah, this content would be trivial to you. Most players don't or can't spend that much money on the game.

Enhancing SSR SLs is not a chore, and this is coming from someone who does it more than most other players. Before Gem Quests came, it was a waiting game. With gem quests however, it's just feeding R weapons into whatever SSR you chose each day--you could even consider it nothing more than a 'daily quest'. The only annoying part is selling back Ns and R eidolons, but that will soon be fixed with the autosell feature.

Wastes too much time? It takes less than a minute to spawn a raid on your alt, and the alt doesn't have to do anything but stand there. The only thing that takes a little time is clearing quests on the alt to the point where they can spend raids, which doesn't take long at all. You could easily do it over several days if you're that lazy about it. It's more than worth the 'effort'--if you can even call it that.

Well, if you skip events and intentionally fail to farm at least the event SSRs, then yeah, I do play more than you. Other than that though, I just try to prevent my AP from capping out and AAB. It's very easy to max out rewards on raid events, even more so with the new system. Hell, if you can prevent you AP/BP from capping out for too long, regen alone will get you pretty close.

So actively playing events--in a game that ultimately does not matter, to anyone's future--is a waste of time, but doing your own research, spending hours upon hours writing guides and calculations, and discussing gameplay and strategy--with players who won't even remember you when they stop playing this game--is completely worthwhile? Ok then. Whatever suits you. Both are a waste of time, the latter even more so. But, that's exactly what people want. They want something to do, to prevent boredom, or to get their mind off of other things.

Though now I understand why you keep referring to actively playing events as a full-time job, because that's exactly what this game is to you. You spend so much time thinking, writing, and talking about it, that you hardly have time to actually sit down and play. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but that doesn't mean the game is a full-time job for everyone else.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

First of all, choosing to invest in all elements does in fact guarantee you will have good teams in all elements. The grid does most of the work, himes just make things a little better. You don't need a full team of SSR himes in order to have a strong, solid team.

What sort of fantasy world do you live in? Debuffs are the most important thing, and many elements don't have any real access to them - particularly not without SSR Himes.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

As long as you do your dailies and any other content that gives jewels, the gacha will provide you with more than enough himes to choose from. Doesn't matter if you're f2p or a whale.

Would you mind explaining all your teams so that I could get a grasp on what on Earth are talking about?

It's like we're not even playing the same game.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

-- The only way any of this content would be trival, is if you're a fat whale with tons of MLB gacha SSRs. And if that's the case, then yeah, this content would be trivial to you. Most players don't or can't spend that much money on the game.

Except that, you know, Gacha SSRs are relatively bad. Sure, they're an upgrade - but not much. Not before Belial and friends, that is.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

So actively playing events--in a game that ultimately does not matter, to anyone's future--is a waste of time, but doing your own research, spending hours upon hours writing guides and calculations, and discussing gameplay and strategy--with players who won't even remember you when they stop playing this game--is completely worthwhile?

People enjoy different things. And the things Sanahtlig does benefit you too. At least it would, should you listen.

This thread has become an endless pit of retardation starring with Slashey's blatant ignorance/incompetence and BakaHentai's shitty behavior, insecurities and legitimately stupid reiterations of poor man's "common sense".
Get a room you two, will ya? It just feels like a toddler fight at this point, it's clear that one is insecure as a human being and NEEDS the approval of people in the internet to feel better and can't get a no as an answer and it's also clear that another one isn't a brilliant person.

I don't see how you can call those events 'trival' when they provide weapons and items to increase your strength for future content.

By "trivial" I mean not challenging, like something I could auto-battle. That was in response to you claiming that deficiencies in my build might be costing me effort/time.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

I just try to prevent my AP from capping out and AAB.

I don't know what "AAB" is, but preventing AP from capping means you're playing this game periodically throughout the entire day. That's already beyond a typical user.

First of all, choosing to invest in all elements does in fact guarantee you will have good teams in all elements.

As Slashley pointed out, debuffs are really important. The right combination will reduce incoming damage by 70% (10k hit to 3k) and double outgoing damage (15k to 30k). A soul can only bring 2 of the 5 debuffs you need to reach the caps. Most teams will need at least 3 of those + Black Propaganda for challenging content.

Enhancing SSR SLs is not a chore

It is with heavy interface lag.

It takes less than a minute to spawn a raid on your alt

Recovering from the automatic disconnects and then navigating the interface adds significant time to each attempt. It takes much longer than it needs to, and it's tedious. Not something I want to do multiple times a day.

if you can prevent you AP/BP from capping out for too long, regen alone will get you pretty close.

So yes, you're playing the game at a minimum of 2hr intervals every day. Pretty much all day every day. I did that too: for the first month or so.

There's nothing wrong with that, but we're comparing builds between a player who plays constantly (you), and one that doesn't (me). Then you/others claim that your method is equal to or superior to mine, which is where our disagreement lies. I'm achieving comparable results to you with a fraction of the time investment.

Now, you could claim that your method is superior for those with no money and excess time, and that's possible. But I'm not convinced yet. A player could instead spend that time rerolling for triple same-element SSRs or some such. Likewise, I'm not convinced that spreading Miracle ticket picks over multiple elements is the best use of funds.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This thread has become an endless pit of retardation

Clearly. While everyone knows rainbow users shouldn't be taken seriously. Because we all know how they look like!

Originally Posted by Yolodesu

Clearly. While everyone knows rainbow users shouldn't be taken seriously. Because we all know how they look like!

You're my spirit animal, buddy

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This thread has become an endless pit of retardation starring with Slashey's blatant ignorance/incompetence and BakaHentai's shitty behavior, insecurities and legitimately stupid reiterations of poor man's "common sense".

Pot, meet kettle.

Feel free to join in with an actual argument.