Miracle ticket thread

[Slashley]

-- Considering the aim for elemental attack is to get roughly 200% from eidolons anyway, the other 100% should come from other sources right?

There is no such "aim." The goal is to get as much as possible, while balancing them out somewhat. No, having 15% on a long cooldown does not make Yamaraja a good Hime - it's literally a SR tier buff *cough*Agni has same buff with shorter cooldown*cough*

Plus amaterasu comes with a def buff and healing. The only thing those two really share is B-frame debuffing. Other than that, they're practically two separate kami.

Uuh, no. The greatest asset of Yamaraja is her B frame and her Combo-. But funnily enough, Amaterasu has a stronger B frame and a Blind which does effectively the same thing as Combo- (aka preventing you from getting assblasted by double and triple attacks).

Plus, while it is a long cooldown, the damage nuke is still welcome cause it can easily hit 6, maybe even 7 digits considering you should be debuffing when possible.--

It can't hit 7 digits because of damage cap, which is 700k. Hitting 1m damage would require dealing 3.7m damage before damage cap reduction.


In conclusion, how good is Yamaraja? About as good as SR Amon and Agni put together. Is that good? ... well, it's better than a SR, but that's it. Is it something worth EVER Miracle Ticketing, considering there's an actual SSR that fulfills the very same role in the very same element? No. No it isn't.

Ever.

[MagicSpice]

There is no such "aim." The goal is to get as much as possible, while balancing them out somewhat. No, having 15% on a long cooldown does not make Yamaraja a good Hime - it's literally a SR tier buff *cough*Agni has same buff with shorter cooldown*cough*Uuh, no. The greatest asset of Yamaraja is her B frame and her Combo-. But funnily enough, Amaterasu has a stronger B frame and a Blind which does effectively the same thing as Combo- (aka preventing you from getting assblasted by double and triple attacks).It can't hit 7 digits because of damage cap, which is 700k. Hitting 1m damage would require dealing 3.7m damage before damage cap reduction.


In conclusion, how good is Yamaraja? About as good as SR Amon and Agni put together. Is that good? ... well, it's better than a SR, but that's it. Is it something worth EVER Miracle Ticketing, considering there's an actual SSR that fulfills the very same role in the very same element? No. No it isn't.

Ever.

Cooldowns are a thing on buffs anyway. Yeah, a long one can be an issue, but buffs are generally viewed higher than debuffs considering they're less likely to get canceled

While true on the combo thing, again, high debuff resist can just give a middle finger to that. So then what? This more or less comes to Ama having two skills into one, which still makes her better in that sense if it wasn't for the fact that all of yamas debuffs are in one skill, which more or less shuffles it around between the two

As for damage cap, you kinda contradicted yourself and proved my point at the same time. Can't hit 1 mil without doing 3.4 mil cause the cap is 700k, even though it's clearly doing higher than the cap? What's really happening is the same as a mechanic on Elsword known as normalization, meaning when you hit a certain point, you get less payoff by increasing it... which a lot of things in this game also does. But since "doing as much damage as possible" is the main focus, the average damage of both skills really needs to be looked at. Also, I did say it can hit 7 digits and you explained a way how...

Now granted(and i did say this in the last comment) Ama is better cause she has a wider range of effects (despite being defensive in a DAMAGE meta), but at the same time yama isn't weak either, you're just refusing to give her more credit. Plus you're gonna have kami with buffs as well if you got for the "best fire kami" so until someone rolls around with a better kit including the same or stronger fire atk buff, that's a bit less damage getting pushed out.

Plus if you got a team to hit the debuff cap anyway, how much past it you can get would still toss yama into the picture. Why not go for another buff to increase damage output (usually on bursts which fire is really good at) when both ama and yama can help hit the debuff cap?

Hell, I've even been told multiple times before that getting ama on a ticket was redundant considering I had yama. Only real reason I got ama is due to defense in fights where I can't debuff

Gotta keep in mind that it can depend on the player's situation

[Slashley]

-- but buffs are generally viewed higher than debuffs considering they're less likely to get canceled

What.

Buffs in Kamihime are really fucking shitty. For example, Atk Up buff versus Def Down debuff.
Atk Up: SSR grade is 20%, effectively 10% more damage (or less as your Grid improves), lasts 3/5 turns. About ~6~10% more damage (6% overall, but Full Bursting constantly under full buffs might maybe sometimes possibly get you closer to 10%) in total.
Def Down: SSR grade is -20%, effectively 20-28% more damage, 8 turn CD for 180 seconds = lasts enough for full uptime. About 20~28% more damage (20% more when going from 0% Def Down to -20%, 28% when going from -30% to -50%) in total.
You can make a similar comparison for Def Up and Atk Down as well.

It's not even a contest. BUFFS ARE SHIT. The only time when buffs start becoming a part of the equation is when we start getting bosses which are highly resistant to debuffs, which will supposedly happen later down the line (as soon as next event?).

While true on the combo thing, again, high debuff resist can just give a middle finger to that. So then what? This more or less comes to Ama having two skills into one, which still makes her better in that sense if it wasn't for the fact that all of yamas debuffs are in one skill, which more or less shuffles it around between the two

What.

Amaterasu has a ludicrous hitrate on her Blind. You can rely on it to land better than Yamaraja's Combo-. Mind you that if either Combo-
gets resisted, it's basically a moot debuff.

As for damage cap, you kinda contradicted yourself and proved my point at the same time. Can't hit 1 mil without doing 3.4 mil cause the cap is 700k, even though it's clearly doing higher than the cap? What's really happening is the same as a mechanic on Elsword known as normalization, meaning when you hit a certain point, you get less payoff by increasing it... which a lot of things in this game also does. But since "doing as much damage as possible" is the main focus, the average damage of both skills really needs to be looked at. Also, I did say it can hit 7 digits and you explained a way how...

3.7m, not 3.4m. Also, smartypants, if you're so smart, please go ahead and tell me what kind of stats do you need in order to reach 3.7m with Yamaraja?

Let me give you a hint: those kinds of stats would be absolutely outrageous. Like, the kind of outrageous that why are you even bothering with skills when your auto-attacks are killing all content in a few turns...? I can't be bothered to make the maths, but I'm pretty sure you'd easily hit the auto-attack damage cap which is REALLY high.

Now granted(and i did say this in the last comment) Ama is better cause she has a wider range of effects (despite being defensive in a DAMAGE meta), but at the same time yama isn't weak either, you're just refusing to give her more credit. Plus you're gonna have kami with buffs as well if you got for the "best fire kami" so until someone rolls around with a better kit including the same or stronger fire atk buff, that's a bit less damage getting pushed out.--

Hell, I've even been told multiple times before that getting ama on a ticket was redundant considering I had yama. Only real reason I got ama is due to defense in fights where I can't debuff

Gotta keep in mind that it can depend on the player's situation

"Situations" depend on RNG. "Should you get Amaterasu when you already have Yamaraja" isn't the correct question, the correct questions are "should you get Amaterasu when you don't have Svarog and Uriel yet?" (where the answer is "never" btw) and "should you get Amaterasu to upgrade Yamaraja when you don't have Mars yet?" (where the answer is "no" btw).


You're literally recommending for somebody to spend 50 bucks on a Hime for which there is a strictly superior version of. I don't care how much you whale, just please have respect for other people's money.

Come on. Just fuck off already and don't waste both of our time.

[MagicSpice]

What.

Buffs in Kamihime are really fucking shitty. For example, Atk Up buff versus Def Down debuff.
Atk Up: SSR grade is 20%, effectively 10% more damage (or less as your Grid improves), lasts 3/5 turns. About ~6~10% more damage (6% overall, but Full Bursting constantly under full buffs might maybe sometimes possibly get you closer to 10%) in total.
Def Down: SSR grade is -20%, effectively 20-28% more damage, 8 turn CD for 180 seconds = lasts enough for full uptime. About 20~28% more damage (20% more when going from 0% Def Down to -20%, 28% when going from -30% to -50%) in total.
You can make a similar comparison for Def Up and Atk Down as well.

It's not even a contest. BUFFS ARE SHIT. The only time when buffs start becoming a part of the equation is when we start getting bosses which are highly resistant to debuffs, which will supposedly happen later down the line (as soon as next event?).What.

Amaterasu has a ludicrous hitrate on her Blind. You can rely on it to land better than Yamaraja's Combo-. Mind you that if either Combo-
gets resisted, it's basically a moot debuff.3.7m, not 3.4m. Also, smartypants, if you're so smart, please go ahead and tell me what kind of stats do you need in order to reach 3.7m with Yamaraja?

Let me give you a hint: those kinds of stats would be absolutely outrageous. Like, the kind of outrageous that why are you even bothering with skills when your auto-attacks are killing all content in a few turns...? I can't be bothered to make the maths, but I'm pretty sure you'd easily hit the auto-attack damage cap which is REALLY high."Situations" depend on RNG. "Should you get Amaterasu when you already have Yamaraja" isn't the correct question, the correct questions are "should you get Amaterasu when you don't have Svarog and Uriel yet?" (where the answer is "never" btw) and "should you get Amaterasu to upgrade Yamaraja when you don't have Mars yet?" (where the answer is "no" btw).


You're literally recommending for somebody to spend 50 bucks on a Hime for which there is a strictly superior version of. I don't care how much you whale, just please have respect for other people's money.

what about cases like wind catastrophe where debuffs are few and far between, hey guess what, buffs are your only viable damage increase... and guess what more, fire has advantage over wind...

and if you're trying to get as much damage as possible, you'll eventually very really high damage like that. max possible assault from a grid is 210% now, and combined with one or even two belials (and eventually the 120% eidolon), that can sky rocket the elemental atk side.

but granted, if you don't have kami like svarog, uriel, and mars, don't even think about ama or yama. but hey, you said buffs are crap and so is ability damage.... svarog has nothing but that.... contridictory. but granted, she might be the exception cause she can fire it off every 3 turns. even then, ability damage for her needs to be a thing along with assault/elem atk increases considering she's the most frequent nuker anyone can get... but a lot say ability damage sucks not really thinking about that one

and all situations do come back to RNG... how do you think you get the kamihime on your team after all? assuming someone never rolls anything but belial in the fire department, that's a lot of mtix you have to use before you even get the chance to decide ama vs. yama.... assuming you go for the higher valued SSR compared to them.

plus again, ama is still ultimately defensive. for an offensive build, she only contributes that b frame debuff which is moot if you can't even land it (likely since wind enemies usually get the higher debuff resist compared to the other elements...)

you're really showing some tunnel vision. that's bad for a game like this that's so very open-ended on how you can get stronger. even rainbow teams from JP vids prove that. I give suggestions that still depend on what kind of build someone may or may not have. and honestly, if someone is going for a burst build with fire, both ama and yama is out aside from the debuff anyway... except for the fact that hey, i can cast yama's buff before a burst to increase the team's damage....

i do have respect for other people's money. which is why i do vids that point out a kami's flaws and strengths, not vids that say "this kami sucks cause such and such, don't use her" when there's clearly things that can indeed make that kami viable. cause you can't really meta chase in this game unless you have the a chunk of the "meta" and well.... good luck with that... sure, do as much as you can if you have access to it. but let's say you go chasing the meta and it changes against you... well, RIP your hard work cause you're stuck with a team that can't do much. we're already seeing that a little bit with debuff resistant enemies and well... JP is starting to see that more frequently... that 50% def debuff cap is powerful, but it's useless when you can't land it. plus tower forces you to keep your options open anyway since you get your kami locked out for a few days and guess what, that's upon us soon so you better broaden your horizons if you want a chance.... hell, most optimal damage uses buffs, debuffs, and burst to optimize damage...


my suggestions still stand, Uriel, Yama and Svarog... but add Ama to that as well cause I should have suggested her too and that's the one thing i actually agree with. that was a mistake not to include her and i admit that.

Come on. Just fuck off already and don't waste both of our time.

and this is just being offensive.... you're really starting to cross the line.

[Slashley]

-- but hey, you said buffs are crap and so is ability damage.... svarog has nothing but that.... contridictory. but granted, she might be the exception cause she can fire it off every 3 turns. even then, ability damage for her needs to be a thing along with assault/elem atk increases considering she's the most frequent nuker anyone can get... but a lot say ability damage sucks not really thinking about that one --

That's because Svarog is a special little snowflake. And so is Uriel, which I'll get back to in a bit.

What makes Svarog so completely bullshit OP? Her ability damage. Why is that so special? Because they fucked up the damage cap. There's many Hime out there that focus on nuking the enemy with their abilities, but all of them are gimped thanks to damage caps. Here's something I wrote ages ago:

Svarog is absolutely insane. Not only does she give your entire team a 100% uptime 40% Assault buff, but her damage cap is literally broken. Let's have a look at some Hime:
Awakened Brahma: 720k cap, 6t CD (120k/t) (Awakening gives fuck-all to Brahma's nuke, her benefits are elsewhere)
Awakened Acala: 900k, 7t (128k/t) (only against Raging, massive 8.5 modifier)
Azazel: 650k, 5t (130k/t)
SSR Artemis: 520k + 300k, 6t (136k/t)
Awakened Susanoo: 704k, 5t (140k/t)
Awakened Ares: 875k, 6t (145k/t)
Svarog: 600k, 3t (200k/t)
Awakened Thor: 450k + 750k, 6t (200k/t) (note: extremely hard to hit cap due to non-multihit, second ability easy to cap at low HP)
Mammon: 190k + 190k + 700k, 3+7+6t (207k/t) (third ability supposedly easy to cap with Dartagnan's help)
Shiva: 600k + 600k, 5+6t (220k/t) (note: extremely hard to hit cap due to non-multihits, probably just doesn't happen particularly for the second ability)

Awakened Svarog: 900k, 3t (300k/t)

...

I mean, let's face it. It's obvious that they typoed Svarog's damage cap, and then they just rolled with it. Awakened Svarog's third ability is even more hilarious since it gives you 3x attacks every 3 turns, so... assuming you're not hitting that damage cap, Svarog is literally punching twice every turn. Plus the baseline 3*1 of course, so three times every turn on average. It's pretty difficult to find any Hime who can deal more than her, except maybe from the self-murdering Hime DMM has been releasing lately. But those will either kill themselves or require a fuck-ton of healing.--

tl;dr; Svarog punches THREE times each turn and has almost no cap.

Going to back to Uriel, what makes her also absolutely crazy is her buffs. They're based on herself only, but she can literally hit 1m+ bursts off-element even in non-whale teams. It's like... what? As if that wasn't enough, she has crazy amounts of Combo+. Making her overall completely batshit crazy.


A couple of special snowflakes don't change anything, however. Buffs are shitty and simply cannot compare to debuffs. Sure, you can complain that debuffs don't count if they don't land, but that doesn't change anything (because you can always NOT bring debuff Hime to fights where debuffs are not a thing).

The whole "debuffs might not land" is basically the gist of all your arguments, and that'd be fair enough... if you weren't saying that Yamaraja is a good SSR thanks to her pathetic 15% Elemental buff. No, her only use is her debuffs. Let me remind you: no debuffs, no nuke damage. No nuke damage and she loses all her measly advantage over Amaterasu. Without any advantages over Amaterasu - who is also a debuff support - you should never, ever recommend somebody to waste 50 bucks on an inferior version.

and this is just being offensive.... you're really starting to cross the line.

Well good. Fuck off already then. I am getting seriously tired of replying to your bullshit all over Kamihime forums. This is exactly what I said would happen when you came back.

[Cobblemaniac]

Y'all need liquid nitrogen.

Clearing up a few things straight up: Neither Yama or Amaterasu are looking good in the future. WiRag + WiHRag + Icarus GO + tower are basically the wind content you're facing that gives a finger to debuffs. Both of their selling points are debuffs, so it's not looking good for either of them. This reduces them to their niches heavily: Ama is a walking 400/t 3t regen and a def buff that's... eh. Yama is a walking debuff block + fire buff... but before you think use her for tower, future 15F throws a useless debuff before the main killer debuff.

Buffs vs debuffs

You will hear a lot of DMM players doomsaying debuffs, because the main caveat here is that you don't center your gameplay around debuffs. And that means you don't center your miracle tickets, and your team building (unless you have no choice) around debuff himes. It's past year 1 kamhime already, debuffs are given many fingers from the devs because it's that good. Quite basically, buffs will become the good ones soon because debuffs become 0%. And 10% will look better than 0%.

Oh right, and hrags have high debuff resistance. All of em. Not WiRag high, but enough to make sure you don't hit cap almost all the time.

Friendly reminder that vigor is quite a good buff when used right; the buff works like the opposite of pride with shitty scaling, but it has it's own multiplier frame, and that comes in very importantly in many fights, now or future.

Svarog

Needs a few stacks to begin hitting the cap. Unless you space whale.

Mtix

No. Uriel or Svarog. Don't waste tix on either Amat or Yamaraja. Remember that you should also account for their weapons because FLBing hime weapons is feasible now, albeit a long process. Amat and Yamaraja have trash FLBs, so it's a no go both on hime and weapons. End of discussion.

[Gludateton]

TL;DR: For people asking whether they should mtix Yamaraja: IMO don't.

I agree that Amaterasu is in most situations better than Yamaraja. Yamaraja is not bad though. 700k nuke every 6T, ATK/DEF/combo rate debuff and sometimes useful affliction block (extremely useful for this raid rag challenge). Not saying that I would recommend mtix'ing her (because I wouldn't), but don't undersell her that much.

And now some other nitpicking:

Def Down: SSR grade is -20%, effectively 20-28% more damage, 8 turn CD for 180 seconds = lasts enough for full uptime. About 20~28% more damage (20% more when going from 0% Def Down to -20%, 28% when going from -30% to -50%).

Effectively 25~40% more damage.

It's not even a contest. BUFFS ARE SHIT. The only time when buffs start becoming a part of the equation is when we start getting bosses which are highly resistant to debuffs, which will supposedly happen later down the line (as soon as next event?).

No. Buffs are part of equation, when they are good. Like for example some stackable buffs, AW Shiva buff, Thunder Aphro Vigor buff.
Agree that Yamaraja's 15% ele up is hardly her selling point though.

Come on. Just fuck off already and don't waste both of our time.

Calm down a little here.

Also, ability damage does not suck and even in future meta it's quite important part of overall damage in some teams (and I am kind of ignoring rage control aspect of abilities here).

[Alaryn]

Hi guys,
I'm thinking about getting a miracle ticket.
My teams:
(Main) Water: Ea (Awakened), Shiva, Celia, Aphrodite
Thunder: Tyr, Raiko, Jupiter
Fire : Ares, Yamaraja
Dark: Berith, Amon Unleashed

Is there any Water SSR i can get thats a clear upgrade? Feels like all my other teams are also lacking a healer, but other than my thunder grid the weapon grids are honestly super meh so they need a lot of work first.

[Cobblemaniac]

Hi guys,
I'm thinking about getting a miracle ticket.
My teams:
(Main) Water: Ea (Awakened), Shiva, Celia, Aphrodite
Thunder: Tyr, Raiko, Jupiter
Fire : Ares, Yamaraja
Dark: Berith, Amon Unleashed

Is there any Water SSR i can get thats a clear upgrade? Feels like all my other teams are also lacking a healer, but other than my thunder grid the weapon grids are honestly super meh so they need a lot of work first.

Snow Raphy would be my first pick for water, since she covers quite a lot of utilities for your team. A blob eat with reasonable accuracy, and a 30% damage cut for 2t are pretty useful additions. And while debuffs are still useful, a 15% B frame still compliments Celia well. This way you free up sniper shot EX for PF as well.

[Gludateton]

Snow Raphy would be my first pick for water, since she covers quite a lot of utilities for your team. A blob eat with reasonable accuracy, and a 30% damage cut for 2t are pretty useful additions. And while debuffs are still useful, a 15% B frame still compliments Celia well. This way you free up sniper shot EX for PF as well.

I would also consider Cthulhu as a long term pick. Not that great combo with Celia though.