Miracle ticket thread

[Slashley]

-- but I got a SSR wind eidolon and I'm thinking if I should change to the wind one :/ --

Event Eidolons are better than SSR Eidolons, unless you have enough of that SSR Eidolon to reach 2+ Stars. A 0-Star Sleipnir won't do you much good. Maybe for farming due to Drop Rate Up, but even then you're probably better off with MLB Vlad. But, looking at your Hime, I guess you are rather new. I guess that means you don't have much of a Grid in terms of skill levels and don't have many Eidolon Orbs to change things.

If you didn't have Uriel already I'd tell you to go reroll into a 100% Eidolon, but I guess Svarog would do decently for you. Her Atk+ buff will help you a ton since your Assault levels are still low.

It's like saying that Brynhildr performs better than Amaterasu, because she has 1200 heal once per 6T, instead of 1200 regen every 7T. We're comparing apples and oranges here. Saraswati being mainly burst gauge control with other uses (defensive buff being one) and Triton being basically defensive debuffer.

Sure, but again, in this game you're able change your team to match what you need. Is Amaterasu going to perform better than Brynhildr in content where debuffs matter? Yes (which is most content). Is Brynhildr going to perform better than Amaterasu in content where debuffs don't work and there's a constant trickle of AoE damage? Yes. It needs to be rather specific content particularly since Bryn Bursts for way less than Amaterasu, but yes, it certainly is very possible.

So, if you worry about being unlucky with Triples - something we've all had happen to us - then Saraswati isn't exactly much of a savior. I mean yeah, I get that you mean to consider that as a "nice bonus" or somesuch, but I don't see it that way. To begin with, is -50% enough to save anyone who already got Triple punched, even with the heal? Even if the relatively long cooldowns are even available...

That's another thing I don't like with Saraswati, the relatively long cooldowns pressure you into getting them on CD ASAP. But if you do that, then they won't be ready when you need them. And if you just wait until you need them, you might end up not using them at all! And if you do need them - the heal is tied to the most powerful effect! That person already took a heavy amount of damage, they probably don't even NEED the Burst anymore!!

Numbers say what you want them to, as proven by BG per turn earlier. But there are some numbers later on.

Maths don't lie.

Of course, humans are the ones that interpret those numbers. So you do have a point. Bring forth another interpretation for those maths, then~

Yes and yes. Herc still requires SS to hit the debuff cap, so no PF.

Fair enough. I was taking PF for granted since that's something I run absolutely run in every element except Thunder (where running it is difficult due to lack of debuffs).

Spoilering this since it got lenghty.

->Open Spoiler<-

Alright then, using bold to show the bottleneck, worst case scenario your team without PF and with Saraswati:
6/7/6/5/6... actually, since turn 6 brings you Saraswati's +Burst back up, let's rather use:
6/6/6/5/6
Worst case scenario your team without PF and without Saraswati, moving Atalanta to second slot:
6/8/8/7/6

Yeah, alright. That's two turns faster, in the very worst case scenario. Which is 25% faster.

---

How about average numbers, then? With Herc running 19.91 Burst/t for example for the first five turns and Saraswati combo targets running 18.4 Burst/t for three turns. Brackets that don't include a turn means that that is the amount of Burst they gained in that amount of turns, and {} used to indicate how close some Hime was to reach a milestone in some specified amount of turns.

Average result, without PF, with Saraswati:
5 (129.55)/4 (91.6)/3 (80.2)/5/6 {57 Burst in five turns on average}
Oomph. The last guy only needs to combo once to make it in five turns, or take quite literally any damage. Let's move the +Burst to the last slot to see if that helps:
5 (129.55)/4 (91.6)/6 {78 Burst in five turns}/5/4
Shit. Didn't help. Again, would be fixed with basically any amount of damage taken.
Average result, without PF, without Saraswati, Atalanta second slot:
5 (129.55 Burst)/7 (97)/8 {68.4 Burst in 7 turns}/7/6
Oomph again. This time the third slot is on the very cusp of hitting seven turns.

Again, yeah alright, that's the same result. Saraswati is still two turns faster, with both teams being quite likely to hit one turn faster most of the time from taken damage. So that's 25%-29% faster.

---

What about with PF, then? This requires Herc to reach 150 burst.

Average result, with PF, with Saraswati:
7 (182.35){140.95 in six turns, so not even close}/4 (91.6)/4 (91.6)/5/6
Oh dear. This is where we see the problem - Herc is bottlenecking the team, rendering Saraswati pointless. Let's see if we can fix that by using turn 6 Saraswati +Burst on Herc, maybe Herc doesn't need to wait for his Relic ability to come off CD?
6 (165.95)/4 (91.6)/6 {78 Burst in five turns}/5/6
Saved!
Average result, with PF, without Saraswati:
7 (182.35)/7 (97)/8 {68.4 Burst in 7 turns}/7/6

Again, two turns faster. Although the non-Saraswati team is fairly likely to do it one turn faster since third slot just needs to take any damage once. 13-25% faster.

---

And finally, worst case scenario, with PF.

Worst case scenario with PF and with Saraswati:
7 {130 in six turns thanks to Saraswati}/6/6/5/6
Worst case scenario with PF and without Saraswati, moving Atalanta to second slot:
8 {145 in seven turns}/8/8/7/6

Again, yes, Saraswati team is faster. By 13%.

---

There was a lot of stuff there, so I could've fucked up a lot of shit
I don't have the time to double-check it all. If anyone has any complaints, do point them out.

tl;dr;
Yes, Saraswati makes a team faster. By... two turns without PF. And about one turn with PF. Since I still see that as basically her only asset, I still don't think highly of her.

But, it does go to show why you were so adamant about it. Two turns is A LOT, after all. But since I took PF for granted, which diminishes Saraswati's speedboost for the team.


Secondly, this certainly got me to think about Vohu. While I still don't see Vohu as particularly useful outside of Fire content, Saraswati can compliment what Vohu doesn't bring to the team - overall quickness. I don't have the time to do the maths right now, but with Vohu AND Saraswati, Water can probably run quite fast. Something I don't see otherwise happening until Cthulhu/Shiva Awakenings wayyyy down the line.

[Gludateton]

I personally am not that fond of averages, but they are faster to calculate and easier to read, so major props for doing all this calculations. I may or may not do some myself, but for now I don't have much time on hand.

Anyway, without PF shortening FB strike from 8T to 6T is quite a difference in my opinion which is definitely not meaningless. With PF... tbh considering PF I would use Shingen instead of Herc (and I do plan to do so if I pull Vohu), since in most cases Herc's Axe doesn't matter that much for debuff cap (it's easy for water to get C frame DEF down).
And as numbers are nice and all, and I like to use them myself in most cases, in others it's hard to include everything. I can only recommend trying to use Saraswati in your team in some compositons, it may or may not work. I don't know what Kamihime you have, but if I remember right you have both Cthulhu and Asherah, so I personally would try something along: Shingen/Saraswati/Cthulhu/Blank/Asherah, using BG boost on Cthulhu (and praying for her 15 BG to hit) and combo rate on Blank spot. This thing should be relatively fast (though this works kinda weird with Asherah which specialises in fat FB).

[Unregistered]

All this talk about PF... what is it?

[Kitty]

All this talk about PF... what is it?

Shingen's EX abilbity Provisional Forest
Decreases own Burst Gauge (-50%) and increases all allies' Burst DMG (+200%).
★ (Unrivaled Divine Bow) Increases to Burst DMG (+500%)

[Gludateton]

All this talk about PF... what is it?

Provisional Forest, Shingen's skill rising burst damage multiplier by 0.04 per burst gauge spent by Soul.

[Unregistered]

Event Eidolons are better than SSR Eidolons, unless you have enough of that SSR Eidolon to reach 2+ Stars. A 0-Star Sleipnir won't do you much good. Maybe for farming due to Drop Rate Up, but even then you're probably better off with MLB Vlad. But, looking at your Hime, I guess you are rather new. I guess that means you don't have much of a Grid in terms of skill levels and don't have many Eidolon Orbs to change things.

If you didn't have Uriel already I'd tell you to go reroll into a 100% Eidolon, but I guess Svarog would do decently for you. Her Atk+ buff will help you a ton since your Assault levels are still low.

I have MLB Vlad, but it is a +30% only and fafnir and sleipnir are 40/50 respectively. Do you mean that the extra 10-20% is not that much and I should focus more on weapons/himes than eidolon?

[trew]

I have MLB Vlad, but it is a +30% only and fafnir and sleipnir are 40/50 respectively. Do you mean that the extra 10-20% is not that much and I should focus more on weapons/himes than eidolon?

Sorry, I forgot to login ^^U

[Unregistered]

I have MLB Vlad, but it is a +30% only and fafnir and sleipnir are 40/50 respectively. Do you mean that the extra 10-20% is not that much and I should focus more on weapons/himes than eidolon?

Lv100 vlad will better than lv40 fafnir/sleipnir

[Unregistered]

Lv100 vlad will better than lv40 fafnir/sleipnir

He is so new this might not be the case for him. Yet. Eventually, absolutely.

"-- and I should focus more on weapons/himes than eidolon?"
MLB Eidolons will give you a lot of stats - especially HP. For veteran players, the difference between 30% and 50% is not huge, since it's often a difference between 270% and 290%. Is 290% better? Sure. But not by that much. And we're not even talking about the difference between Character Atk (Sleipnir) and Elemental Atk (Vlad, Fafnir).

I personally am not that fond of averages, but they are faster to calculate and easier to read, so major props for doing all this calculations. I may or may not do some myself, but for now I don't have much time on hand.

What can I say - I love math.
What I don't like is math which might be horrendously wrong. I noticed mistakes and had to revise a couple of times, so things could be badly wrong there. Should've made a spreadsheet to calculate the stuff for me...

I need to check those maths proper once I get back home from x-mas stuffs. Yeah, busy times for everyone.

-- I don't know what Kamihime you have, but if I remember right you have both Cthulhu and Asherah, --

When I stopped playing for four months, I had all Water SSRs except Ea and the two healers (much to my annoyance). Since then, Neptune, Water Osiris and Celia have come out, I believe.

I'm running Herc/Cthulhu/Snow Raph/Ryu-Oh/Asherah. The biggest reason for this comp is that it runs a fun balance between control (two Orb eaters, BP, -35% Atk debuff, 30% damage cut) and damage (PF, -80% Def debuff) with Asherah and Fenrir there just for Crit and burst memes. Is it optimal? Hell no, but I just love playing control too much. Having access to a on-element healer sure would be nice, but what can you do. RNG is going to RNG. Oh RNG, why you give me almost all Waters, but zero Lights (1st MT was Sol) and almost zero Darks? Anyway, Dark AQ5 was great fun when juggling Orb eating, Charm and BP to take zero Overdrives. Am certainly looking forward to that again next week, I bet something will go horrendously wrong~

[Gludateton]

What can I say - I love math.
What I don't like is math which might be horrendously wrong. I noticed mistakes and had to revise a couple of times, so things could be badly wrong there. Should've made a spreadsheet to calculate the stuff for me...

I have masters degree in maths and... well, I probably love math much less than you. But numbers are nice.

When I stopped playing for four months, I had all Water SSRs except Ea and the two healers (much to my annoyance).

Since then, Neptune, Water Osiris and Celia have come out, I believe.

I'm running Herc/Cthulhu/Snow Raph/Ryu-Oh/Asherah. The biggest reason for this comp is that it runs a fun balance between control (two Orb eaters, BP, -35% Atk debuff, 30% damage cut) and damage (PF, -80% Def debuff) with Asherah and Fenrir there just for Crit and burst memes. Is it optimal? Hell no, but I just love playing control too much. Having access to a on-element healer sure would be nice, but what can you do. RNG is going to RNG. Oh RNG, why you give me almost all Waters, but zero Lights (1st MT was Sol) and almost zero Darks? Anyway, Dark AQ5 was great fun when juggling Orb eating, Charm and BP to take zero Overdrives. Am certainly looking forward to that again next week, I bet something will go horrendously wrong~

Understandable, that's composition looks actually really good and I'd change either Ryu-Oh or Snow Raph (probably former) for Sarawswati only if I wanted more damage. Yours team is more stable though and if it's not about complete damage race it should be more fail-proof. My choices are quite... constricted, so I am working with what I have.