Miracle ticket thread

[Unregistered]

You'd run with 0 debuffs?
I mean, there is content out there where that works, but I doubt that that's the optimal path for most content.What "newer players"?
Let's say you have 9x 21% Assault FLB weapons. That makes you hit 189% Assault.
You run elemental advantage, a friend P2W Eidolon (100%) and offensive Soul weapon. That's 175% Elemental.

Which is better for you, Adra or Crom's Crotch?
And mind you, this is with the quiiiiite unlikely scenario that you're running 189% Assault.

Sorry but i have to say the point of a optimal fire team is to deal good dmg without debuff. But when you need it, you will never go wrong with Herc SS. So spent a MT for Ama is just bad

[Unregistered]

What "newer players"?
Let's say you have 9x 21% Assault FLB weapons. That makes you hit 189% Assault.
You run elemental advantage, a friend P2W Eidolon (100%) and offensive Soul weapon. That's 175% Elemental.

Which is better for you, Adra or Crom's Crotch?
And mind you, this is with the quiiiiite unlikely scenario that you're running 189% Assault.

This example is missing 2 rather important detail:

1) Accessories can give you 20+ assault pretty easily, as high as 40 if you're prioritizing it.
2) Svarog herself gives your team a constant 10-40 assault. (FAmon can counter this somewhat, but her buffs aren't on all the time)

As such, typically, once you hit around 150 assault (not that hard, 3 flb, 3 assault L, 3 assault M), it's better to start using the elemental ones unless you have a good (gatcha) assault eido (50+), particularly the ones with burst streak.

Also, since we're in a UE atm, I should point out that the union attack buff is also assault, so especially during these times, never use char eidos.


Also, also... a bit of a nitpick, but newer players aren't gonna have soul weapons, and will likely spend large portion of their time off element, since they are likely focusing on one element.

[KitKat]

You'd run with 0 debuffs?
I mean, there is content out there where that works, but I doubt that that's the optimal path for most content.

The people above me pretty much made my point for me so maybe you'll accept you're wrong from someone else.

What "newer players"?
Let's say you have 9x 21% Assault FLB weapons. That makes you hit 189% Assault.
You run elemental advantage, a friend P2W Eidolon (100%) and offensive Soul weapon. That's 175% Elemental.

Which is better for you, Adra or Crom's Crotch?
And mind you, this is with the quiiiiite unlikely scenario that you're running 189% Assault.

Already said i was wrong about this my viewpoint was mostly based on the pre relic era and off ele assumptions.

[Slashley]

You still need debuffs for solo content?

Wasting one MT for a KH just for a SS replace is BS.
Next MT you can get the strongest fire Unit => Fire Freyr
She has 30% fire RST down, she is faster than Uriel, can hit cap too and does way more spike dmg.

Obv Amaterasu looks really garbage in comparison
You'd have 50 def down, but you'd have a slowpoke, and debuffs aren't even necessary, the 30 down is a bonus with Frey anyway
considering that Frey is just a god tier unit in general.

Furthermore Cerberus has a guaranteed 15% def down which means you would already have 45% def down if you use Fire Freyr and a Cerberus support.

Therefore use your current MT for Svarog, Uriel or Fire Amon.
Any of those 3 paired with Fire Freyr is already solid

And tbh if you need debuffs get Hercules and run SS.
you are better off to run Fire Amon than Amaterasu.

Anyway if you guys are sane then don't waste a MT for a useless unit which will become completly useless soon.

Sorry but i have to say the point of a optimal fire team is to deal good dmg without debuff. But when you need it, you will never go wrong with Herc SS. So spent a MT for Ama is just bad

I think both of you have quite unrealistic expectations of things. For example, the availability of Cerberus. Only now am I starting to see some Hanumans, and that thing has been out for... seven months now. Sure, you can keep rerolling until you find one for content that matters, though.

Another thing, why use unreliable SS, and/or use Herc in a Fire team, slowing down your entire team in this era of Shingen? Fire in particular has fairly ease access of a Phantom Lance Grids, something that Shingen particularly enjoys.

[KitKat]

I think both of you have quite unrealistic expectations of things. For example, the availability of Cerberus. Only now am I starting to see some Hanumans, and that thing has been out for... seven months now. Sure, you can keep rerolling until you find one for content that matters, though.

You dont even NEED cerberus thats just side note you didnt adress any of his main arguments.

Another thing, why use unreliable SS, and/or use Herc in a Fire team, slowing down your entire team in this era of Shingen? Fire in particular has fairly ease access of a Phantom Lance Grids, something that Shingen particularly enjoys.

Thats the point you dont even need herc and SS but its still a perfectly viable option no clue how its ''unreliable'' in any way shape or form.
Herc cant be used because shes slow but Ama is not??
Also theres no way someone running a null grid needs debuffs for solo content so thats a moot point.

[Slashley]

Ah, shit. There was a new page that I didn't notice.

This example is missing 2 rather important detail:

1) Accessories can give you 20+ assault pretty easily, as high as 40 if you're prioritizing it.
2) Svarog herself gives your team a constant 10-40 assault. (FAmon can counter this somewhat, but her buffs aren't on all the time)

1. Does anyone prioritize Atk from Accessories...? As far as I've seen, pretty much everyone stacks Def, due it being superior for everything that isn't Target Dummy.
2. That is a good point. I entirely forgot about that since I don't have Svarog myself.

As such, typically, once you hit around 150 assault (not that hard, 3 flb, 3 assault L, 3 assault M), it's better to start using the elemental ones unless you have a good (gatcha) assault eido (50+), particularly the ones with burst streak.

I don't really agree with that 150 point. Even after you account for Svarog, you're again at that 190% Assault range and 175% Elemental range. The difference between the two in damage output is next to nothing, while one of them also gives you 20% HP.

And yes, Ifrit/Fenrir/Giri are absolutely the second best Eidolons you can use, after P2W Eidolons. Burst Streak bonus is so damn good these days.
Giri please baby, daddy needs you, come home.

Also, since we're in a UE atm, I should point out that the union attack buff is also assault, so especially during these times, never use char eidos.

True, but a special case. I, at least, always change my support Eidolons into the Elemental version during a Union event.

Also, also... a bit of a nitpick, but newer players aren't gonna have soul weapons, and will likely spend large portion of their time off element, since they are likely focusing on one element.

Well, offensive Soul weapons are a huge factor, so they definitely should focus on getting those ASAP.
... of course, at the moment how exactly do newer players kill Ults is a big question, since veterans aren't really willing to spend 5 Seeds to help somebody clear an Ult... that cost reduction can't come fast enough.

Already said i was wrong about this my viewpoint was mostly based on the pre relic era and off ele assumptions.

Oh yeah, I used to preach that a lot back in the day. But then slowly but surely people started having Grids for all elements, decent teams for all elements, and the general consensus seemed to switch from "one great team for all content" to "everyone runs on-element"
I still have to fight pretty hard against the culture of "everyone runs on-element with perfect teams, no exceptions" which is constantly popping up. On Nutaku, you can have MAYBE one perfect team, assuming you buy MTs AND spend all of them on the same team.

You dont even NEED cerberus thats just side note you didnt adress any of his main arguments.

And these "main arguments" were...?

Thats the point you dont even need herc and SS but its still a perfectly viable option no clue how its ''unreliable'' in any way shape or form.

Umm, Sniper Shot hitrate is god-awful. Meanwhile, Hime not only typically have much higher accuracy on their debuffs, but can use 4(/6/10)% Affliction which basically guarantees always hitting. Thus, Hime are reliable, Sniper Shot is not.

Herc cant be used because shes slow but Ama is not??

Herc can only go into first slot. Amaterasu can go into fifth slot.
Herc takes up space from a Soul that give everyone +20 Burst. Did Fire have anyone who had a team-wide +burst for Ama to steal a spot from?

Also theres no way someone running a null grid needs debuffs for solo content so thats a moot point.

This kind of thinking is really backwards, I'd think. That's basically saying "There's no need to do more damage than what you already do", which is like, ????? If so, what's even the point in investing in a Miracle Ticket...?

The simple fact is, assuming non-debuff immune content (debuff-doomsayers, I'm still waiting for that...), debuffs will literally double your damage. For EACH of your five characters. As such, "sacrificing" a slot for a weaker Hime is not a bad thing, but a good thing. Think of it this way - Amaterasu reduces your enemy's Def from 10 to 8. This is a 25% damage increase, which means that the other four characters are basically covering up for Amaterasu's lack of offensive output already. It gets better though, since if Amaterasu drops Def from 7 to 5, that's a 40% damage increase. Even if you only have three strong units (Uriel, Svarog, Soul) at this point, you have a big damage boost on your hands. And, this still leaves Amaterasu with the rest of her toolkit: - 20% Atk Down, her amazing Blind, the Def up and Regen.

Now, this idea gets muddled up when new completely broken Hime show up. We already have Tish and are about to get Lugh, both of whom have a debuff AND are incredible in the offensive department. Vahagn (and I guess Fire Frey too, though I haven't looked her up) is also like this. Does Amaterasu get replaced by Hime like these? Sure. But the question is, WHEN? Only once you have -50% from such Hime already does Amaterasu lose her slot. And how long will that take? Well, let's see... about four months for one Miracle Ticket for Vahagn/Fire Frey, another four months for Fire/Frey Vahagn... oh, eight months. Because on Nutaku, you're NOT getting either of those Hime with Jewels, don't delude yourselves. That's eight months of gimping yourself just because you didn't want to look at Amaterasu.


The point is, I'm not saying to pick Amaterasu over Uriel or Svarog. Those two are in serious SSS+ tier and should never be skipped. Their firepower is so damn high that it's better to run Herc with her awful SS for debuffs and you'll still gain more damage output than with Amaterasu. However - that doesn't mean that you should underestimate just how damn good Amaterasu is. Yes, she NEEDS content where she can apply her debuffs to work. But in debuffable content, she continues to complete Fire. She is an option for all those who already have Uriel and Svarog, and damn it, until I see this debuff-immune content I will continue to say it.

[Zendo]

I probably should not get in on this but why not.

You still need debuffs for solo content?

I, the person who asked for advice, do ye. Very much so, my account isn't nearly as strong as yours. As other players kindly pointed out I'm in the early game. Debuffs matter for me, that being said it doesn't help versus debuff resistant bosses; then brute force is the way.

Next MT you can get the strongest fire Unit => Fire Freyr
She has 30% fire RST down, she is faster than Uriel, can hit cap too and does way more spike dmg.

This answers my question if Frey becomes available next MT, so thank you!

Also glad to hear I don't have to pick up Uriel and can get Frey instead.

Obv Amaterasu looks really garbage in comparison
You'd have 50 def down, but you'd have a slowpoke, and debuffs aren't even necessary, the 30 down is a bonus with Frey anyway
considering that Frey is just a god tier unit in general.

Three things:

1. I believe that Amaterasu and Frey are incomparable to some extent. They serve different purposes and Amaterasu holds different utility alongside different stages of the game. She suffers from diminishing returns the further you advance in the game.
2. I believe that for me Amaterasu holds more value than to you. Simply because we are in different stages of the game. I still value healing when my Kamihime have 6k HP on average. That being said, I understand that healing isn't always necessary. Here I like to draw on what dreamlitz said earlier and I agree with.
3. I believe Amaterasu is a slowpoke late game and when debuffs don't matter as much. So, in your situation. I still rely on my precious debuffs D:

then you decide what you need most for a given encounter

That it is nice to have the option to swap certain Kamihime out based on your needs. Amaterasu has healing, if I need healing I need Amaterasu (I have Sol so I can potentially use her, as using a MT to substitute might be a waste).

Amaterasu is beginner friendly, Im a beginner. So she holds value, but her value diminishes as I progress and Amon retains her value. I understand that point.

Therefore use your current MT for Svarog, Uriel or Fire Amon.

U mentioned earlier that Uriel can be replaced by Frey, therefore this MT (for me specifically) Amon holds more value.

This is a 25% damage increase, which means that the other four characters are basically covering up for Amaterasu's lack of offensive output already.

The way I understand it is: ATK gets buffs from several INDIVIDUAL modifiers, Character ATK/Elemental ATK, debuffs increase all that damage by 25%. Therefore it holds value in non-debuff resistant/immune bosses. But I can also see their point, because THEY have insane DAMAGE. I DONT, therefore I value debuffs! And struggle against debuff resistant bosses because I lack damage. Both of you have points but in different scenario's.

(and I guess Fire Frey too, though I haven't looked her up)

Her burst gauge is twice as big, 30% resistance down but consumes a flat 50 (I think, the wiki didnt mention a %) of burst gauge, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY: she is a transformer!!! She is the true Last Knight (movie reference)

However - that doesn't mean that you should underestimate just how damn good Amaterasu is. Yes, she NEEDS content where she can apply her debuffs to work. But in debuffable content, she continues to complete Fire. She is an option for all those who already have Uriel and Svarog, and damn it

+1

Heck no Im skipping the loli with the annoying voice and getting Frey/Vahagn next MT; but thats next MT!

This MT is either Amaterasu or Amon for me at least. Im in the early game so I believe Amaterasu holds significant value, but if I need healing I can sub her for Sol potentially if I pick Amon. I don't know its hard to decide which is better. Mainly because Amon is wearing a maid outfit. I wanna waifu this MT really bad, plus a lot of people say she is valuable later on. But I need healing grrr.

[Slashley]

--
This MT is either Amaterasu or Amon for me at least. Im in the early game so I believe Amaterasu holds significant value, but if I need healing I can sub her for Sol potentially if I pick Amon. I don't know its hard to decide which is better. Mainly because Amon is wearing a maid outfit. I wanna waifu this MT really bad, plus a lot of people say she is valuable later on. But I need healing grrr.

Notice that healing is certainly something you won't need long term - in a couple of months maybe, even. Amaterasu is a bad healer (heals less per turn than SR Brynhildr), but more importantly, she REDUCES the amount of damage you take. Against normal attacks (because yes, they matter, especially when enemies Combo) her Blind is a life saver. Against Overdrives, her -20% Atk and Def up will take the brunt off the hit.

So uh, tl;dr; don't mistake Amaterasu for a healer - she mitigates more than what she heals. I don't know if that difference actually matters all that much, but just for the record~~

As for Fire Amon, she will supposedly be good for a long, long time. Personally, I'm not sure. It feels like everyone is assuming that Fire Amon users also have 2-Star Echida, in which case yes, she's a beast. She's still very good even without (and has that fabled +20 burst to all I see, plus is a Full Burst buffer which is highly valued for end-game), but I wouldn't call her Svarog/Uriel tier.

[Unregistered]

Notice that healing is certainly something you won't need long term - in a couple of months maybe, even. Amaterasu is a bad healer (heals less per turn than SR Brynhildr), but more importantly, she REDUCES the amount of damage you take. Against normal attacks (because yes, they matter, especially when enemies Combo) her Blind is a life saver. Against Overdrives, her -20% Atk and Def up will take the brunt off the hit.

So uh, tl;dr; don't mistake Amaterasu for a healer - she mitigates more than what she heals. I don't know if that difference actually matters all that much, but just for the record~~

As for Fire Amon, she will supposedly be good for a long, long time. Personally, I'm not sure. It feels like everyone is assuming that Fire Amon users also have 2-Star Echida, in which case yes, she's a beast. She's still very good even without (and has that fabled +20 burst to all I see, plus is a Full Burst buffer which is highly valued for end-game), but I wouldn't call her Svarog/Uriel tier.

Don’t compare Amon with Uriel and Svarog, they do different things, Amon with her 20% assault and 50% ele buff increase the FB dmg by ~30%. And her 20% party BG is fucking amazing because you don’t have to rely on shitty Shingen’s combo rate in the first cycle. The 20% cut is a nice bonus too

[KTA]

Don’t compare Amon with Uriel and Svarog, they do different things, Amon with her 20% assault and 50% ele buff increase the FB dmg by ~30%. And her 20% party BG is fucking amazing because you don’t have to rely on shitty Shingen’s combo rate in the first cycle. The 20% cut is a nice bonus too

^ this. I won't comment on those numbers, but Uri is a main attacker, while Svarog is for slow ramp up damage. The point of Amon is to accelerate the team to critical mass. The nuke damage is just a bonus; her main role is to act as a bridge between normal and PF FB's. Her weakness is that she doesn't have any personal BG up steroids, but we're talking about Fire, almost all the other good units accelerate themselves, hence why letting her be the slowest member is ideal. Her worth is without question, and she's already a core fire unit to veteran fire mains.