Debuff overwriting confirmed to be bugged in English version

[sanahtlig]

Update: This bug has been fixed in the English version as of 1/5/18.

Defense down debuff fails to correctly overwrite weaker debuff of the same type in Kamihime Project R
Wpmz, Dr. SlickFenix^, sanahtlig*

* Corresponding author, Principal investigator
^ No intellectual contribution, and mainly just distracted the others

This research was conducted by the Godtamers Union Research Division.

Introduction: Debuffs failed to overwrite correctly prior to 1/20/17 in the DMM version, resulting in stronger effects failing to apply as expected [1]. Until now, it was unconfirmed (or at least not widely known) whether the problem persisted in the English version, which was launched a month later.

Methods: Nergal's type A DEF down debuff (-10%) was applied, damage from several rounds of normal attacks was recorded, the debuff was overwritten with type A DEF down debuff Ambush (-20%), and several additional rounds of normal attacks were recorded. This was performed with and without a type B -20% ATK/DEF debuff from Amaterasu. The initial experiment was performed on the Fire Disaster (Normal), and the results were replicated on the Thunder Disaster (Normal), and Yatagarasu (Ultimate, boss only) encounters. Encounters were video recorded, damage numbers transcribed into a spreadsheet, and the normal attack damage for all characters before and after Ambush application were compared for a statistically significant difference using Student's t-test.

Results: Ambush failed to provide the expected 10-16% increase to normal attack damage in subsequent rounds predicted by Sanahtlig's Kamihime Project Toolbox Damage Calculator. Intriguingly, it appeared to increase normal attack damage in the SAME ROUND it was applied, but this bonus did not carry over to subsequent rounds, suggesting a strange system glitch rather than a design oversight.

Results spreadsheet with video links



Conclusion: Weak debuffs should not be applied when a stronger debuff of the same type is available, or will soon be available. The weak debuff should be applied afterwards instead (resulting in a 'miss'), or saved in case the stronger debuff misses. This experiment only tests a specific set of conditions, but since it replicates a known issue in the DMM version, a general defect in debuff overwriting should be assumed. Mordred-users in particular should pay attention to the order of debuff application, as the type B ATK/DEF applied by Outrage is the weakest of its type.

Moreover, a user has reported that Regen doesn't update either, implying that stronger buffs may also fail to replace weaker buffs.

[Wpmz]

This is Wpmz who did the verification. If anybody has any questions regarding the videos or spreadsheets feel free to contact me on discord at Wpmz#6239 or via the Godtamers discord.

[Rhenosa]

i hope it didnt happen to the buff mechanics. since buffs will overlap alot especially in raid

[sanahtlig]

i hope it didnt happen to the buff mechanics. since buffs will overlap alot especially in raid

Debuffs generally have stronger effects than buffs. And the potential for weak debuffs blocking stronger debuffs in Raids is much greater due to the large variety of same-type debuffs (that affect the entire Raid) and their ~10x longer duration.

[Shieun]

How do we know if a debuff is stronger/weaker?

Is it the +/++ symbol?

What about some character like Tyr who only has * powered up?

[Aidoru]

It varies but ++ will most likely be better than +.

I say it varies since the game doesn't specify the exact values. You might find skills with 2 debuffs with the same/similar effect description but one is -12% and the other is -15%. You can find the values listed on the JP wiki.

http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--...8A%B9%E6%9E%9C

[Shieun]

took me a while to understand google translate result... but I suppose I kinda get it...

Also I presume the debuff value stacks by straight addition (e.g. 10%+15%+15% = 40%)?

[sanahtlig]

Debuffs generally fall into 5 types: A, B, C, eidolon/Burst effect, stacking (not many of these). Debuffs of different classes stack additively, while debuffs of the same class are supposed to apply the strongest one. Except we verified that this isn't the case; a weaker debuff will remain and be renewed if overwritten with a stronger one. The stronger debuff will be active for the turn that it was applied, but in the big scheme of things that doesn't really help.

[Aidoru]

took me a while to understand google translate result... but I suppose I kinda get it...

Also I presume the debuff value stacks by straight addition (e.g. 10%+15%+15% = 40%)?

Yes and caps at 50%

[SlickFenix]

took me a while to understand google translate result... but I suppose I kinda get it...

Also I presume the debuff value stacks by straight addition (e.g. 10%+15%+15% = 40%)?

Yes they do stack by straight Addition, however not every debuff stacks. They have to be in different Classes or "Frames" as Google Translate says from the DMM Wiki.

Below is the link to the debuffs, just remove the enter between http and the actual address. Only way I can post links.

http
://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%83%90%E3%83%95%E3%83%BB%E3%83%80%E3% 83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97 %E7%B3%BB/%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%E3%83%AB#r984489a