Thread: SSR Gacha Ticket Question

Originally Posted by Wanderer

-- the burst -- skills are truly the best --

Wait, what? Burst is usually a complete trash tier stat. I could look this up from the JP wiki, but save me the bother?

Also, rather than using the SSR limit break materials on the Shop weapons, wouldn't those be better used on Relic weapons?
Unless you're interesting in only one weapon for one element, the Regalia farm is likely going to be just utterly INSANE otherwise.

I think the exceed is good because it gives you the same effect with Shingen's 2nd skill.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Wait, what? Burst is usually a complete trash tier stat. I could look this up from the JP wiki, but save me the bother?

Saved you the bother and looked it up, it's apparently supposed to amplify burst damage and raise the damage cap of burst... if what Google translate says is accurate. Quite the useful tool for burst teams I'd wager.

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

Man, the damage calculation in this game is really dang complicated. What's the overall formula for burst calculation? Also, if the damage cap increase from the weapon burst buff I see in the JP wiki is actually valid, is that a good reason to run a dual skill weapon having burst buff?

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Man, the damage calculation in this game is really dang complicated. What's the overall formula for burst calculation? Also, if the damage cap increase from the weapon burst buff I see in the JP wiki is actually valid, is that a good reason to run a dual skill weapon having burst buff?

The formula is listed here, if you can read Japanese: http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--...BC%8F#c85da2b9

The damage cap increase applies only to Burst damage, judging by the Japanese wording. It'll only help you if you're already at the cap, e.g., from Shingen's buff. My SSR kamihime's Burst damage shouldn't be any more than 500k, even with Shingen's full +100% buff, so I don't see the damage cap impacting me with current effects and equipment. With double +100% eidolons hitting the cap becomes more likely, but I don't expect to ever be in that situation. And in any case, this isn't practically relevant since the majority of endgame players right now don't have a full grid of SSRs, so that choosing between SSR weapons is even necessary.

At its core, burst damage is {normal_attack_damage * (A + burst_buff)} + B
A and B depend on rarity (of the main weapon or the kamihime herself) as well as whether there's the improvement from 3* or not. A's the important one, B's just a small constant.
For your soul, A varies from 2 (R) to 4.5 (3* SSR). B varies from 1500 to 2500.
For kamihime, A varies from 3 (SR) to 5 (3* SSR) or 5.5 (awakened SSR). B scales at the same rate as for the soul. The table on the wiki actually doesn't list what A is for R's. Not that you'd use R's if you can avoid it... but I can say that burst damage overall is pretty lackluster with my fire team consisting of 3 R's :P

And to be complete, burst streak damage is based off of burst damage done that turn. Sum it up, then multiply by {1 / (7 - N)}, where N is the number of people. So you really want full bursts to make that 50%. Then multiply again by elemental advantage or disadvantage if there is one. If it seems like it can be double dipping for advantage here, it is. And then multiply yet again for any burst streak buffs, but those come from eidolon passives that you wouldn't be using if you have other options.
So in practice, if your soul leads off the burst streak with elemental advantage, expect the burst streak itself to add ~72.5% damage on top of all of the individual bursts.

If +burst is being prized on weapon skills, then it's because DMM players seem to be hunting for whatever that can directly increase their burst damage. It's really just assault, pride, exceed, and stinger that do that. Stinger assumes that you're going to be leveraging elemental advantage, so I'm assuming here the DMM players in question aren't rocking endgame teams of all elements. The +double and +triple skills would increase the rate at which you can burst over the long term, but not the damage of any individual burst. Said players presumably aren't all that worried about frequency of bursts. Nor do they seem to need +HP or +healing.

What I'm curious about is, whenever vigoras (think opposite of pride) gets implemented, would players want that? If vigoras as a weapon skill actually applies a ousei/vigorous buff, then things get interesting. Ousei/Vigorous is listed as something that gets counted in otherBuffs. (if you don't know what direction I'm hinting at here, go back to the normal attack damage formula).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What I'm curious about is, whenever vigoras (think opposite of pride) gets implemented, would players want that? If vigoras as a weapon skill actually applies a ousei/vigorous buff, then things get interesting. Ousei/Vigorous is listed as something that gets counted in otherBuffs. (if you don't know what direction I'm hinting at here, go back to the normal attack damage formula).

That's wishful thinking. Vigor is more like a status effect, while Vigorous is a weapon skill effect that is likely implemented as the inverse of Pride (character attack increases at high % HP). Either way there will be an inconsistency of sorts, but Vigor is more likely to be multiplicative with Vigorous (which justifies running them together) than for Vigorous to be multiplicative with character ATK, making it a stronger effect than Pride (which wouldn't make sense for a mirrored effect).

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

Good math, just totally missed the point, which is so obvious:
1. As Cobblemaniac said, the CAP.
2. Kamiless SSRs with burst skill have assualt skill as well.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

The formula is listed here, if you can read Japanese: http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--...BC%8F#c85da2b9

The damage cap increase applies only to Burst damage, judging by the Japanese wording. It'll only help you if you're already at the cap, e.g., from Shingen's buff. My SSR kamihime's Burst damage shouldn't be any more than 500k, even with Shingen's full +100% buff, so I don't see the damage cap impacting me with current effects and equipment. With double +100% eidolons hitting the cap becomes more likely, but I don't expect to ever be in that situation. And in any case, this isn't practically relevant since the majority of endgame players right now don't have a full grid of SSRs, so that choosing between SSR weapons is even necessary.

Majority of endgame players on DMM version (don't think Nutaku version is anything near "endgame") HAVE a full grid of SSRs and often hit the cap.