Thread: Consolidated Light Team Topic

which is exactly why AW Michael is not core.... shes only needed in those builds. high dmg is only useful if you can deal that damage to begin with.

AW Michael would be core in extremely high end situations. and this is including content in DMM. the other core himes are almost always useful.

End Game+
Based on DMM content, eventually, clearing contents at highest difficulty will like require elemental advantage. For example, completing Accessory Quest 5 on Light is still possible with a perfect Light Team, but your life is much easier using a decently picked Dark Team. Since the best way to farm high end Light gear is to use a Dark Team, and best way to farm high end Dark gear is to use a Light Team. In end game+, player is encouraged to have 2 teams.

I don't think this is quite right. Consider the hardest solo content available in the English and JP version: Accessory Quests, Guild Orders, Tower events. Of these, as far as I know only AQ gives you element-specific rewards. But AQ4 and AQ5 can be cleared with optimized same-element teams (caveat: Miracle tickets likely required). Guild Orders and Tower events give you rewards that can be used on any element. Therefore, if you main Light, having a Dark team is not necessarily more useful than, say, having a Fire team.

An Elemental advantage build is a completely different investment strategy that relies on having elemental advantage in most or all content, not just some. The point is to invest equally in multiple elements and make all of them endgame-capable, based on the assumption that 6 good teams will be stronger than 1 excellent team for clearing high-difficulty content.

Originally Posted by Slashley

A > I don't understand the "not rely on debuff" thing.

B > So, would you mind explaining just how your Light/Dark/Fire pulled their weight? Fire... well, fair enough (I assume Belial+Belial+Awakened Uriel+Awakened Svarog?), but Light didn't even have SSR Nike at that point in the game.

C > Ridiculous Resistance

D > Why not water?

A) The above few already answered it. Buffs. And when I say buffs I dont mean the minor ones like Arthur buff / Element dmg up / Andromeda Def up and the likes. I'm talking about powerful ones like Stackable Buffs, Self/Party Burst up, Taunt + Counter, Dmg cuts, Barriers, High rate/Guaranteed DATA, Guaranteed Crit, Party Vigor, Party Berserk, Party Dodge, Kaiser shields etc. Notable examples that you already have: Poseidon, Cu Chulainn, Eros, Svarog AW, Titania AW. Later iconic examples: Ashirat, Pluto, Freyr, SSArtemis, Chernobog, Vishnu, Berith, Aether, Uriel AW, Mike AW.

B, C & D) I probably should make it clear that the ONLY 100% I own is Hraesvelgr. I do NOT need my own 100% to be able to kill everything and anything in KamiPro using my other element teams. You also do NOT need Light Nike to beat Tower as Light. All you need is to have played long enough for a invested grid and a deep enough roster. By roster, I mean ALL rarity, not just SSR. A significant number of whales got destroyed because they've either neglected their non-meta roster or simply run in without knowing how to use their sub-team hoping to roflstomp the stages with raw stats. As for why my Water team failed, I did not have the right hero weapon (I had Arthur sword cuz I was slacking on advanced water builds), and running a team with Aphro + Saraswati + Raphy + Poseidon (had to use Cthulhu/Ashirat for earlier floors) without a max grid simply was not enough dps to stun Dysnomia Phlox from spamming rage + trigger nuke back to back which completely overwhelmed my defense. Again, no matter how many times you ask me I will answer the same: You need a strong grid. No amount of defense can save you if you can't get out of rage phase within 3 turns. Water failing aside, I cleared Phlox just fine with my Light team, having enough firepower while defending against Dysnomia's mechanic as well as her brutal firepower. Afterwards I even find my team too defensive and could have went for a slightly more offensive line up which would have actually reduced the risk of units dying (and formation falling apart).

i wanna say a thank you to sanahtlig and bear for sharing these insights. helps alot to plan miracle picks long way into the future.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

A > Endurance build--assuming that's even possible for a given encounter.

B > Huh. The JP wiki warned that the boss has notable debuff resistance. This wasn't something I could assess from videos, so I just took it at face-value. If it doesn't, that makes planning much easier.


C > Superior if you have equivalently strong characters between teams. Otherwise, maybe not. There's also the problem that leveling multiple grids is currently a real pain in our version. Apparently changes in the enhancement system have made this less of an issue in the DMM version.


D > I don't write guides for best-case scenarios. That's the main issue issue I have with relying on +100% eidolons--same with you and debuffs.

A) General purpose yes. GO depends on boss. Some mobs/bosses either hit too hard or have % attacks that outright ignores your defense. Tower is NG for higher floors.

B) JP wiki, like you, tries to cater to players who barely got the absolute minimum requirement to clear said contents and to be as informative about any possible risk as possible. Otherwise it wouldn't be a wiki for general information. Indeed you can miss in AQ5, more often on the miniboss than Andromalius herself, which can screw weak players over. But the actual miss rate is like 10~15% as long as you're not using infamous crappy accuracy debuffs like Ambush / Snipe / Cthulhu debuff etc, which is rarely a bother for most veterans.

C) Just wait for gemcha revamp, which should be arriving on Nutaku soon. I didn't exactly get 6 Rag-viable grids within mere 6 months of play you know. To be exact I didn't start soloing Event Rag raids until Tiamat, during which I started power-SLing my grids to clear raid missions. Cuz completionist OCD.

D) You do yours. My purpose is to show the maximum potential of all available tools and how to squeeze every last ounce of their worth. Do take this fair warning though: Do not underestimate these future contents. Especially not Tower.

Originally Posted by Bear

-- as long as you're not using infamous crappy accuracy debuffs like Ambush / Snipe / Cthulhu debuff etc --

Ambush and Sniper Shot, sure. Since Souls can't get Accessory Affliction, sadly.

But is there any list of these "infamous" debuffs?

@Bear,

Given current DMM contents:

1. Whats your recommended requirement for AQ5? GO? and Tower?

2. Whats does your teams currently look like?

3. Whats the current meta in DMM for Light?

Thanks bro.

Ah, I see Bear edited his post. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Bear

-- Again, no matter how many times you ask me I will answer the same: You need a strong grid.--

So, the final question is - how do you define a strong grid? Does having played for ~18 months and gathered up all the SSR weapons and gotten them to slvl20 equal strong?

Originally Posted by QXZ

Given current DMM contents:

1. Whats your recommended requirement for AQ5? GO? and Tower?

2. Whats does your teams currently look like?

3. Whats the current meta in DMM for Light?

Thanks bro.

1.
AQ5 is easy with a typical 100%+ assault grid with random 100% support. Max SL if you dont wanna bother with super supports. You only need enough firepower to stun Andromalius within 5 turns (about 5.5m dmg, 6T if you have BP), and more importantly to let you get through the miniboss, which is imho the only hard part of AQ5. Or just play turtle and stack 100% dmg cut with Jeanne + one tank hime + Kaiser cut.

youtu.be/Fqcu-4YknbA
Note that I failed the run on purpose to show what happens if you messed up on miniboss mechanic xD

GO actually has less requirement in terms of raw power. Perfectly doable even if you run SR team provided you have a decent grid + advantage + know what you're doing. Less if you have a full SSR team or a healthy mix of SSRs and SRs.

vs Thunder GO
youtu.be/IOEyPDN4xpQ
vs Light GO
youtu.be/Eo7p2xYRPS4

Tower I will mention in response towards Slashey. All I can say is, do not take it lightly.

2.
Hard to answer. I don't really have a fixed team as I change my team according to what I need or feel like trying. If you ask what team I use for daily chores like Rag raids and GO, then it's Herc, Takeminakata, Mikael, SSArty + wild card (Tsukuyomi or Freyr or Shamash or Sol depending on fight).

3. Quite a few. Most involving the big 4 meta heroes + Mikael, SSArty, Tishtrya, Takeminataka, Tsukuyomi, Freyr or Vishnu + Sol or Eros if defense, cleansing or dispel is needed.

Originally Posted by Slashley

the final question is - how do you define a strong grid? Does having played for ~18 months and gathered up all the SSR weapons and gotten them to slvl20 equal strong?

GO is ezpz with a average SL15~20 grid + elemental advantage.
Tower though, if you aiming for higher currency reward, nothing less than maxed SL grid + several +99 OR 2~3 FLB weapons (for extra skills) + close to max SL grid (no +99 needed). Thing is, you aren't going to be using your shiny SSR team for most of the floors because you need to save it for the final fight. You will be rotating through Rs, SRs, and probably your spare SSRs of a single element if you have any left. Not saying it's impossible to succeed with less, but I would not recommend it unless you have a thing for cutting it real close. Plus even if you meet all the hardware requirements
youtu.be/2U9r_Sv6tY8
nicovideo/watch/sm32850263
Simple mistakes can easily cost you your effort throughout the entire course of event.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Ambush and Sniper Shot, sure. Since Souls can't get Accessory Affliction, sadly.

But is there any list of these "infamous" debuffs?

The one's that I know of are mainly the hero ones plus Cthulhu, Satan's A frame, Ryuuou and Tyr.
There isn't really an official list but more a shared experience among players in active communities. In fact if you take a closer look at JP wiki comments you will find frequent complains about the accuracy of those few debuffs I mentioned. OTOH, notoriously accurate ones that I know of (and can confirm) are Amon U, Amaterasu (and her NY ver) and Samael.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Shingen's ATK weapon guarantees that she can get the PF buff when she Bursts. Therefore a Shingen build should work in any situation where a Hercules + PF build works, and has the added advantage of freeing up an EX slot. Given that Ambush (or Sniper Shot) + Vine yields a greater -DEF debuff than Hercules's Burst effect, I don't really see the niche that Hercules fills--unless you don't plan to run PF at all.

Actually, the main use I'd see of a Hercules build is making do without any source of DEF down at all, e.g., without Light Tsukuyomi. But at that point D'art becomes attractive, and requires a lot less investment.

Pardon me but I'm gonna have to address this post here because it's relevant to Light builds and I'm not about to let this misinformation overlooked. Just FYI Herc Weapon debuff is 25% and she can do it faster and better with her Burst Gain Rate up from Abi1 + 30 Burst Gauge from her Axe upgraded Abi3. Secondly, that 30 Burst Gauge I mentioned is exactly why she is meant to be used with PF. Saying that she's inferior to Vine's mere 10% is just, excuse my language but, ignorant.

You only need enough firepower to stun Andromalius within 5 turns (about 5.5m dmg, 6T if you have BP)

5 orbs = 6T, since the player always attacks first. The difference is important if you're trying to pull off a double Burst, especially with Provisional Forest.

Originally Posted by Bear

Saying that she's inferior to Vine's mere 10% is just, excuse my language but, ignorant.

It's not -25% vs. -10%. It's -25% vs. -30%.