Thread: Consolidated Light Team Topic

Originally Posted by Slashley

A > I don't understand the "not rely on debuff" thing.

B > So, would you mind explaining just how your Light/Dark/Fire pulled their weight? Fire... well, fair enough (I assume Belial+Belial+Awakened Uriel+Awakened Svarog?), but Light didn't even have SSR Nike at that point in the game.

C > Ridiculous Resistance

D > Why not water?

A) The above few already answered it. Buffs. And when I say buffs I dont mean the minor ones like Arthur buff / Element dmg up / Andromeda Def up and the likes. I'm talking about powerful ones like Stackable Buffs, Self/Party Burst up, Taunt + Counter, Dmg cuts, Barriers, High rate/Guaranteed DATA, Guaranteed Crit, Party Vigor, Party Berserk, Party Dodge, Kaiser shields etc. Notable examples that you already have: Poseidon, Cu Chulainn, Eros, Svarog AW, Titania AW. Later iconic examples: Ashirat, Pluto, Freyr, SSArtemis, Chernobog, Vishnu, Berith, Aether, Uriel AW, Mike AW.

B, C & D) I probably should make it clear that the ONLY 100% I own is Hraesvelgr. I do NOT need my own 100% to be able to kill everything and anything in KamiPro using my other element teams. You also do NOT need Light Nike to beat Tower as Light. All you need is to have played long enough for a invested grid and a deep enough roster. By roster, I mean ALL rarity, not just SSR. A significant number of whales got destroyed because they've either neglected their non-meta roster or simply run in without knowing how to use their sub-team hoping to roflstomp the stages with raw stats. As for why my Water team failed, I did not have the right hero weapon (I had Arthur sword cuz I was slacking on advanced water builds), and running a team with Aphro + Saraswati + Raphy + Poseidon (had to use Cthulhu/Ashirat for earlier floors) without a max grid simply was not enough dps to stun Dysnomia Phlox from spamming rage + trigger nuke back to back which completely overwhelmed my defense. Again, no matter how many times you ask me I will answer the same: You need a strong grid. No amount of defense can save you if you can't get out of rage phase within 3 turns. Water failing aside, I cleared Phlox just fine with my Light team, having enough firepower while defending against Dysnomia's mechanic as well as her brutal firepower. Afterwards I even find my team too defensive and could have went for a slightly more offensive line up which would have actually reduced the risk of units dying (and formation falling apart).

Ah, I see Bear edited his post. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Bear

-- Again, no matter how many times you ask me I will answer the same: You need a strong grid.--

So, the final question is - how do you define a strong grid? Does having played for ~18 months and gathered up all the SSR weapons and gotten them to slvl20 equal strong?

Originally Posted by QXZ

Given current DMM contents:

1. Whats your recommended requirement for AQ5? GO? and Tower?

2. Whats does your teams currently look like?

3. Whats the current meta in DMM for Light?

Thanks bro.

1.
AQ5 is easy with a typical 100%+ assault grid with random 100% support. Max SL if you dont wanna bother with super supports. You only need enough firepower to stun Andromalius within 5 turns (about 5.5m dmg, 6T if you have BP), and more importantly to let you get through the miniboss, which is imho the only hard part of AQ5. Or just play turtle and stack 100% dmg cut with Jeanne + one tank hime + Kaiser cut.

youtu.be/Fqcu-4YknbA
Note that I failed the run on purpose to show what happens if you messed up on miniboss mechanic xD

GO actually has less requirement in terms of raw power. Perfectly doable even if you run SR team provided you have a decent grid + advantage + know what you're doing. Less if you have a full SSR team or a healthy mix of SSRs and SRs.

vs Thunder GO
youtu.be/IOEyPDN4xpQ
vs Light GO
youtu.be/Eo7p2xYRPS4

Tower I will mention in response towards Slashey. All I can say is, do not take it lightly.

2.
Hard to answer. I don't really have a fixed team as I change my team according to what I need or feel like trying. If you ask what team I use for daily chores like Rag raids and GO, then it's Herc, Takeminakata, Mikael, SSArty + wild card (Tsukuyomi or Freyr or Shamash or Sol depending on fight).

3. Quite a few. Most involving the big 4 meta heroes + Mikael, SSArty, Tishtrya, Takeminataka, Tsukuyomi, Freyr or Vishnu + Sol or Eros if defense, cleansing or dispel is needed.

Originally Posted by Slashley

the final question is - how do you define a strong grid? Does having played for ~18 months and gathered up all the SSR weapons and gotten them to slvl20 equal strong?

GO is ezpz with a average SL15~20 grid + elemental advantage.
Tower though, if you aiming for higher currency reward, nothing less than maxed SL grid + several +99 OR 2~3 FLB weapons (for extra skills) + close to max SL grid (no +99 needed). Thing is, you aren't going to be using your shiny SSR team for most of the floors because you need to save it for the final fight. You will be rotating through Rs, SRs, and probably your spare SSRs of a single element if you have any left. Not saying it's impossible to succeed with less, but I would not recommend it unless you have a thing for cutting it real close. Plus even if you meet all the hardware requirements
youtu.be/2U9r_Sv6tY8
nicovideo/watch/sm32850263
Simple mistakes can easily cost you your effort throughout the entire course of event.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Ambush and Sniper Shot, sure. Since Souls can't get Accessory Affliction, sadly.

But is there any list of these "infamous" debuffs?

The one's that I know of are mainly the hero ones plus Cthulhu, Satan's A frame, Ryuuou and Tyr.
There isn't really an official list but more a shared experience among players in active communities. In fact if you take a closer look at JP wiki comments you will find frequent complains about the accuracy of those few debuffs I mentioned. OTOH, notoriously accurate ones that I know of (and can confirm) are Amon U, Amaterasu (and her NY ver) and Samael.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Shingen's ATK weapon guarantees that she can get the PF buff when she Bursts. Therefore a Shingen build should work in any situation where a Hercules + PF build works, and has the added advantage of freeing up an EX slot. Given that Ambush (or Sniper Shot) + Vine yields a greater -DEF debuff than Hercules's Burst effect, I don't really see the niche that Hercules fills--unless you don't plan to run PF at all.

Actually, the main use I'd see of a Hercules build is making do without any source of DEF down at all, e.g., without Light Tsukuyomi. But at that point D'art becomes attractive, and requires a lot less investment.

Pardon me but I'm gonna have to address this post here because it's relevant to Light builds and I'm not about to let this misinformation overlooked. Just FYI Herc Weapon debuff is 25% and she can do it faster and better with her Burst Gain Rate up from Abi1 + 30 Burst Gauge from her Axe upgraded Abi3. Secondly, that 30 Burst Gauge I mentioned is exactly why she is meant to be used with PF. Saying that she's inferior to Vine's mere 10% is just, excuse my language but, ignorant.

You only need enough firepower to stun Andromalius within 5 turns (about 5.5m dmg, 6T if you have BP)

5 orbs = 6T, since the player always attacks first. The difference is important if you're trying to pull off a double Burst, especially with Provisional Forest.

Originally Posted by Bear

Saying that she's inferior to Vine's mere 10% is just, excuse my language but, ignorant.

It's not -25% vs. -10%. It's -25% vs. -30%.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

It's not -25% vs. -10%. It's -25% vs. -30%.

You failed to mention 25% + the part about a free EX slot for PF vs 30%, where 20% occupies the same EX slot

There's also the fact that, if you do indeed lack or cannot freely use your debuffer hime at hand due to mission restriction / tower lock, Heracles alone can cover 45%.

Originally Posted by Bear

You failed to mention 25% + the part about a free EX slot for PF vs 30%, where 20% occupies the same EX slot

There's also the fact that, if you do indeed lack or cannot freely use your debuffer hime at hand due to mission restriction / tower lock, Heracles alone can cover 45%.

Yes, all of this was already in the quote or implied by context--which was also qualified as speculation amidst other speculation in a thread focused on a different topic. That said, I am definitely interested in your ideas on when Hercules + PF is superior to Shingen.

Again, I appreciate your perspective, but I'd also appreciate not being combative for its own sake, though I realize this is fashionable in certain sections of the community. I'm sure you didn't join this community just to pick a fight with me, right? ...right?

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Yes, all of this was already in the quote or implied by context--which was also qualified as speculation amidst other speculation in a thread focused on a different topic. That said, I am definitely interested in your ideas on when Hercules + PF is superior to Shingen.

Again, I appreciate your perspective, but I'd also appreciate not being combative for its own sake, though I realize this is fashionable in certain sections of the community. I'm sure you didn't join this community just to pick a fight with me, right? ...right?

I have zero interest in you or your personal beef with whatever. But you can be sure that you will attract my attention if you speak of any misinformed insight and theory-crafting, genuine or not.

Anyway back on topic. I do not believe Heracles is superior over Shingen, nor is the other way around. As a matter of fact I find both equally viable and there is no reason to dismiss one over the other. Since this thread is about Light, I will focus on Light builds for these two and in what ways they excel.

Both heroes are both perfectly capable at using PF. Both also have good DATA rate, which in turn means consistent lead in burst gauge (so you don't end up waiting for the hero's gauge to perform FB).

Heracles covers the much needed debuff gap for Light Team. The nature of her nuke also gives her good synergy with Light, an element where party buff is abundant and can give Heracles so many buff stacks that she can reach straight for dmg cap with minimal debuff. She is also nigh unkillable during the 5T in which her def + reflect + regen buff is active. Should your party starts falling apart, you can almost be certain that Heracles will be the last 2 or 3 standing. A hero that can stay alive = more chance to use summon actives especially when one of those can turn the tide of battle.

Shingen can provide an okay-ish party DATA buff and is fast enough to burst twice before any other of team is ready for burst, further speeding up your FB speed. Light team units, before Tishtrya, Takeminakata and the advent of Mike AW, tend to be notoriously sluggish. Their only saving grace was Managarmr whose active is a very strong DATA buff, but still no where close to satisfactory. Shingen provides Light team a much needed boost in the speed department.

Choosing between Heracles and Shingen is like choosing between Raw Power and Speed. 'One Man Army' vs 'Slightly Faster Burst Cycle.' In the end it's entirely up to personal preference. I should mention though, Shingen has recently lost her edge against Heracles exactly because of the 3 mentioned units. But hey you can't really expect everyone to have those readily available so this point is half moot.

Example Heracles and Shingen builds... I was going to say that. But then I realize all my builds works with both Heracles and Shingen with only minor differences in performance, the differences I already mentioned above. In the end, just pick whoever suits your play style more. There's simply no logical nor practical purpose in trying to place one above the other. IMHO there would be more room for discussion if this were a comparison vs Arthur or Morgan -shrug-

Originally Posted by Bear

-- Just FYI Herc Weapon debuff is 25% and --

Oh, oh, I said last time it'd be my final question but... one more!

What IS the Affliction rate of the Hercules weapons? Since Wrath Bow has MISERABLE hit rate, like 80% or less. And since it's not even being cast, during Union events it's still not 100%...

Originally Posted by Slashley

Oh, oh, I said last time it'd be my final question but... one more!

What IS the Affliction rate of the Hercules weapons?

Extremely high. Still doesn't work on WinRag or Dysnomia and the likes but otherwise rarely ever misses.

@Bear,

how does no heal work in DMM meta? i get it works in low level content but in long fights, especially multi stage fights, how do ppl sustain the dmg?